BRAKING SYSTEM - YOUR THOUGHT & SUGGESTIONS, PLEASE

[willyphixitt]

Hi Guys,

As per the subject headline, I would like your thoughts on the following:-

Firstly some basic info of my car. It is a MY2005 TF135 (colour Firefrost) with 15 inch wheels shod with Toyos. The previous owner had fitted Mike Satur's front Big Brake kit with EBC Greenstuff pads. I have fitted Jaylad's servo brace which has reduced the brake servo flexing but does not eliminate it because the bulkhead parts - both vertical and the horizontal plates can be easily seen still flexing. I can only see this movement being further reduced if a substantial piece of metal is fitted between the bulkhead & the subframe.

Wanting to further improve braking response, what would you guys suggest. I need to replace the hydraukic fluid fairly soon and before I do I will fit a set of Hel braided hoses as well as EBC Greenstuff pads to the rear. Now, do I fit 280mm drilled & grooved discs to the rear? Do I also fit HiSpec 4 pot calipers to the front which fit under the 15 inch wheels? I see a problem with the HiSpec calipers as they will not fit under the (14 inch) spare wheel, which would mean rear wheel swap to a front if a puncture is on a front wheel & then fit the spare to the rear. A right pita especially if its piddling down - on a dark night of course! Do I dump the spare and find a second hand 15 inch alloy for the spare? What tyre would one fit to the alloy spare?

When it comes to replacing the brake fluid, as I am replacing all 4 hoses, do I let all of the old fluid drain out? However, I wondering if that may give me grief when it comes to bleeding, getting rid of any air.

Before anyone suggests swapping my wheels for 16 inch ones -I don't want to do that. The car as it is feels very safe when driving in the UK or Continent where I can give it some beans.

Thanks in advance for any thought, ideas and suggestions.

willyphixitt

[mgfsoldier]

I think you have everything covered
Larger rear brakes
Lines and fluid

I did hear that Mintex pads were better than green stuff.

[Bigfootmgf]

Yellow stuff pads are better than green stuff and bite really well and will save changing the calipers.

[talkingcars]

Yellow stuff work well on the road.

Don't left the fluid drain from the ABS pump, it is a mare to get air out again.

Is a double wheel swap that much of a problem, when was the last time you had to do an emergancy wheel change?

[ErikB]

- I would prefer to flush enough new brake fluid through the system, than draining and refilling. On the ZT, eliminating air locks at the ABS pump means testbook procedure. Not sure f that's the case for a F/TF. Follow the correct procedure (bleeding at the caliper depending on the distance from the servo/ABS pump)
- Any idea about the age of the EBC Greenstuffs. It looks like there has been good and worse.
- I liked how the Mintex pads performed on the 280mm (not the cheaper ones on ebay, but the 1155, 1166 and 1177's compounds)
- As you know, front brakes are doing most of the job ... HOWEVER, you can't rule out the job of the rears. If you're having crappy rear brakes, you'll overheat the front ones in no time.

my 2 eurocents

[Kasper]

In a way your track is about like mine on my '96 F.

15" wheels, Big brakes (280 Black Diamond) in the front, Extra support brace for the master cylinder and Braided hoses all around.

I started this setup with green stuff and was not really impressed, only when changing to Mintex 1144 (?) I noticed a considerable improvement on braking. Experienced to the max on Alpine roads where reliable brakes are welcome and more useful compared to our crowded city touring tracks.
Finally I changed over to Red stuff as couldn't source the right type of Mintex and did not want to have the green ones again.

Recently I changed the rear brakes up to 280's as well, simply I ran into them. Hoping that the huge amount of brake dust on the rear rims would be reduced. that is not the effect but the car has a better brake handling, stops faster and better controlled, specially with warmed up rotors.

On only one occasion I ran into brake problems due to boiling fluid, changing it was the solution. (Using standard fluids)

just some other Euro cents

[Rob Bell]

The standard calipers are fine - I wouldn't necessarily race to change them. Better pads certainly help. I don't particularly like EBC pads from prior experience with Green Stuff (turned to dust and the pad blocks broke up after light track day use). I've not tried Yellow Stuff though. Mintex would be my preferred brand.

changing hoses for braided may help - but if I am honest, I don't really notice the difference: the flex in the bulk head panel is the problem as you have already correctly identified.

If changing fluid, it is (much) easier to flush through the old fluid with new rather trying to empty, refill and then try to deal with air locks.

If you have 280mm rotors on the front, then consider fitting 280mm on the rear - it balances the braking system really nicely.

[Bigfootmgf]

The reason I went to yellow stuff is I tried green stuff and they were okay but no good for track!
2 laps and they were gone!
Not tried yellow stuff on track yet but on the road they work well with real bite!
Was going to get mintex but couldn't justify the cost!

[willyphixitt]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for the feedbacks. James/Erikb - you confirmed my suspicions that it would end in tears if I drained the system. It was worth double checking as I was changing all 4 brake hoses. The originals being 11 years old now.

I wanted get your thoughts on the big brakes having read about the big brake myth on your website, Rob. My plan is to get the 280mm rear disc upgrade from MGFMania, go right through all calipers,derusting et al & add caliper paint. Paul, I will stick with greenstuff as I've tried yellowstuff on my previous Subaru Forester and I wasn't impressed. My current 2014 Forester XT is still under warranty so any pad change at the moment would still be oem.

I've got the Hel hoses and greenstuff pads for the rear coming from Brakes4U as the front pads have little wear. Kasper/mgfsoldier, I had considered Mintex pads and may try that route for trips to the UK and keep the greenstuff for around Jersey where the max speed is 40mph.

My TF brakes better than my 1996 mpi F I had previously but as with all things they will very slowly deteriorate without really noticing it. So I am hoping a thorough overhaul and clean will give me the maximum braking energy from the setup.

Thanks again for all your feedbacks. They are all very much appreciated.

willyphixitt

[talkingcars]

New OEM brake hoses will be an improvement on originals that could be older than some of my kids, all of whom have left school.

[willyphixitt]

Hi Guys,
Just an update of the progress of gathering info re the braking system on my TF135. Investigating the suggestions re Mintex 1144, 1155, 1166 and 1177 pads, I eventually got round to ringing Mintex direct to get advice and a retail price of the 11** pads.

Firstly they advised the 1144 pads for road use - bty they are not listed in their catalogue - and they don't supply direct to Joe Public. They directed me to Questmead (http://www.questmead.co.uk), tel 01706 363939. Questmead's website informs me that it's trade only. Having got this far I needed to ring them to find out a retailer that do exports. However, as I'd been referred by Mintex they were happy to supply me directly should I go ahead. The retail price for the fronts MDB1419/1144 being £96.36 plus VAT for UK customers. My thoughts being to fit the 1144s when out of the island. They've never made pads for the rear and suggested them not being necessary but will make a set if I wish.

MGFMania were out of stock of the rear discs so I've not started my check up and overhaul of the brakes. No sweat, I'm not in any rush and will get round to the job whenever. Got everything else - Hel hoses, brake fluid, EBC greenstuff pads for the rear and red calliper paint and clear lacquer, not forgetting my homemade brake bleeding kit.

TTFN

willyphixitt

[Rob Bell]

I've ordered batches of brake pads from Questmead before - the last time was... err... over 10 years ago (where did that time go????) - but they were helpful.

Let me know if you are going to do this. I'd be interested in getting some new pads for my Fs...

[willyphixitt]

Received my rear discs from MGFMania on Monday - thanks Peter. So now I have all the bits necessary to complete the job. The job is on the back burner for the moment as a few household jobs need tackling toot sweet. I decided to replace my ageing oil tank (which is 21 years old now) with a bunded one to comply with current regulations. Not as simple a job as it turns out. Still, I digress.

Back to the MG. Rob, I will wait until I've done the refurb and upgrade of the rear brakes before deciding on going down the Mintex 1144 route. I've never been able to kick in the ABS with hard braking in the dry, the upgrade might just tip the balance. I must one early morning on a rainy day nip down to the large car park (by Jersey standards) and see how the cars responds under heavy breaking in the wet.

TTFN

willyphixitt

[Rob Bell]

Sounds sensible Bill

[willyphixitt]

New rear discs now fitted together with HEL reinforced hoses and EBC Greenstuff pads. I found winding the rear brake calliper stiffer than expected. I didn't have a long nosed pair of pliers suitable but luckily the locking key from my small angle grinder (cheap B&Q jobby) was perfect for the job. Must take a photo of the key and post it here.

I've been driving the car under the illusion that the standard spare wheel would still fit when the Mike Satur Big Brake Discs were fitted (280mm) to the front. It doesn't. I would have had to faff around swapping a rear to the front if a puncture had occurred in a front tyre. The PO had fitted them to my TF and I never gave it any thought until I was fitting the 280mm discs to the rear. I've contacted Martin Smith for an alloy wheel to use as a spare. He has one in the style I wanted and will pick it up next Thursday while over in the UK. I had also reconsidered fitting Hi-Spec callipers to the front but their prices have risen considerably. Some Mintex 1144 pads may be in order if I feel the need for more stopping power while driving out of the island.

willyphixitt