T4 Diagnostics

You can talk about anything here. You'll also find a section with member posted photos of our events here.

Moderator: Committee Members

User avatar
andy8688
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:56 pm
MGF Register Region: Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 2001

T4 Diagnostics

Post by andy8688 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:21 am

Hi Guys, I live in the Solihull area and was wondering if anyone has a fault code reader.
I took my f out over weekend and when the engine got up to temperature it started to judder quite bad, I have replaced plugs, coils and leads, problem still there. Looking at the symptoms fan comes on tick over 1200 rpm even when up to temperature and when it cools down it drives lovely,
Maybe a sensor, don't know.
Any advice appreciated.
Andy

ErikB
Regional Rep
Posts: 544
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:12 am
MGF Register Region: Europe
Model of Car: MGF PTP RT-Sport 165
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by ErikB » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:41 am

Coolant temperature sensor is suspected here. If it fails, the ECU will assume a low temperature, just to be on the safe(st) side.
The guage in the dash uses a different sensor, so that might be working as expected while the ECU hasn't got a clue about the coolant temperature.

Quite easy to replace and not that expensive.


PS. having a T4, but not even close to Solihull .... the closest I get is the Freelander 2

User avatar
andy8688
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:56 pm
MGF Register Region: Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 2001

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by andy8688 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:05 pm

Thanks Eric, I have done a quick search on the forum, some suspect the throttle body, but mine is a metal one, but thanks I will replace the temperature sensor .

User avatar
Mykel
Regional Rep
Posts: 2759
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:13 pm
MGF Register Region: Europe
Model of Car: MG TF Monogram
Location: Schwalmtal, NRW, Germany

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by Mykel » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:46 pm

If it’s not too urgent I could pop in with my PScan on the Saturday afternoon next week, Andy. I’ll be collecting some wheels from a company in Longbridge (B45) before 12.00 and go on to Stoneleigh from there.
MGTF:
2004 TF 135 in Monogram Spectre, black leather, RHD
MGZR:
2001 ZR 160 in Solar Red, LHD, LPG conv
Classic:
1972 MG Midget MkIII RWA in Blaze Red
MGF Register regional rep for Germany -- germany@mgfregister.org

User avatar
andy8688
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:56 pm
MGF Register Region: Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 2001

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by andy8688 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:59 pm

Thanks, I live close to stoneleigh only a10 minutes drive.
PM me and I will give you my address.

User avatar
Mykel
Regional Rep
Posts: 2759
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:13 pm
MGF Register Region: Europe
Model of Car: MG TF Monogram
Location: Schwalmtal, NRW, Germany

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by Mykel » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:43 pm

PM sent.
MGTF:
2004 TF 135 in Monogram Spectre, black leather, RHD
MGZR:
2001 ZR 160 in Solar Red, LHD, LPG conv
Classic:
1972 MG Midget MkIII RWA in Blaze Red
MGF Register regional rep for Germany -- germany@mgfregister.org

User avatar
andy8688
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:56 pm
MGF Register Region: Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 2001

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by andy8688 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:56 pm

Michael ,many thanks for stopping by and diagnosing the problem which I had on my F with your diagnostics tool, which turned out to be the TPS sensor and the camshaft sensor. I thought it would have been the coolant temp sensor which I purchased an original MG one which is now surplus.
Much appreciated Michael.
Andy

User avatar
Mykel
Regional Rep
Posts: 2759
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:13 pm
MGF Register Region: Europe
Model of Car: MG TF Monogram
Location: Schwalmtal, NRW, Germany

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by Mykel » Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:15 pm

Was a pleasure, Andy, I’d do anything for a good cuppa. :lol:

Sensors already sourced at Stoneleigh, see you tomorrow. Just hope it’s really them and not the wiring …
MGTF:
2004 TF 135 in Monogram Spectre, black leather, RHD
MGZR:
2001 ZR 160 in Solar Red, LHD, LPG conv
Classic:
1972 MG Midget MkIII RWA in Blaze Red
MGF Register regional rep for Germany -- germany@mgfregister.org

User avatar
andy8688
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:56 pm
MGF Register Region: Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 2001

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by andy8688 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:23 pm

Me too.

User avatar
andy8688
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:56 pm
MGF Register Region: Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 2001

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by andy8688 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:32 pm

I have replaced parts today and problem still exists, the problem starts exactly driving for about 10 miles, like pulling out the choke.
The only thing I have not replaced is the coolant temperature sensor as Michael's gadget said the values were good.

User avatar
talkingcars
Posts: 5766
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:44 pm
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: mk1 VVC
Location: West Sussex
Contact:

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by talkingcars » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Time for a www.pscan.eu ?
Home to black Alfa 159 3.2 V6 Q4, blue MGZR160, green MGF VVC and grey MGF 1.8i, and red MG Maestro T16.

MGF chatting on the Register and at http://www.the-t-bar.com

pscan.eu
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:32 pm
MGF Register Region: South East

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by pscan.eu » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:26 pm

I have seen coolant temp sensors which are good when cold or warm and then fail as they get hot. The one inside the automatic transmission of my 607 does that, and I have had the coolant one do the same. I'm not saying it is that, but you need to drive it until it fails and then look at live data to see what has gone out of wack.

User avatar
Mykel
Regional Rep
Posts: 2759
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:13 pm
MGF Register Region: Europe
Model of Car: MG TF Monogram
Location: Schwalmtal, NRW, Germany

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by Mykel » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:50 pm

Thing is, the TPS isn’t giving any reading at all, as a replacement made no change I guess it’s a broken wire in the engine loom. Had that too a couple of years ago. Swapped the complete engine loom for a good replacement, all probs sorted.
MGTF:
2004 TF 135 in Monogram Spectre, black leather, RHD
MGZR:
2001 ZR 160 in Solar Red, LHD, LPG conv
Classic:
1972 MG Midget MkIII RWA in Blaze Red
MGF Register regional rep for Germany -- germany@mgfregister.org

User avatar
andy8688
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:56 pm
MGF Register Region: Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 2001

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by andy8688 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:52 am

Could it be the ECU itself, when the car reaches up to temperature there is a funny smell coming from the engine bay.

User avatar
Rob Bell
Committee Member
Posts: 14422
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:36 pm
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: MGF 1.8i + MGF Shed!

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by Rob Bell » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:09 pm

Andy, the engine bay smell is unlikely to be the ECU: the charcoal cannister is in that locale, and you'll get all sorts of hot oil/ combustion gas type odours in this area.

Ideally, we'd need to pop the pscan.eu back on the car to see whether the faults that I guess Mykel will have cleared reappear. If new sensors, and continued sensor faults, then this would appear to point more towards a loom fault IMO.

User avatar
Mykel
Regional Rep
Posts: 2759
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:13 pm
MGF Register Region: Europe
Model of Car: MG TF Monogram
Location: Schwalmtal, NRW, Germany

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by Mykel » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:25 pm

Andy, for a start here’s the TPS connection to the big connector on the ECU. It’s all straightforward, no slices or taps in there so should be quite easy to measure:
Bildschirmfoto 2016-02-22 um 14.15.02.png
If you’ve got a multimeter, you could try a first measurement between pins 1 (+) and 3 (GND) on the TPS connector; with ignition switched on this should give a 5 volts reading. If there is no voltage, you would have to disconnect the big connector on the ECU and find pins 20, 34, and 46 and check connection to the relevant pins on the TPS connector. I guess that one of these wires must be broken.
To find the right pins on the large connector, here’s the layout:
Bildschirmfoto 2016-02-22 um 14.24.04.png
MGTF:
2004 TF 135 in Monogram Spectre, black leather, RHD
MGZR:
2001 ZR 160 in Solar Red, LHD, LPG conv
Classic:
1972 MG Midget MkIII RWA in Blaze Red
MGF Register regional rep for Germany -- germany@mgfregister.org

User avatar
andy8688
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:56 pm
MGF Register Region: Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 2001

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by andy8688 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:14 pm

Thanks Michael

User avatar
talkingcars
Posts: 5766
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:44 pm
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: mk1 VVC
Location: West Sussex
Contact:

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by talkingcars » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:14 pm

The "sockets" in the plug are very small so when testing them I use a straightened paperclip or a sewing needle in the relevant "socket" to attach the multimeter lead to.
Home to black Alfa 159 3.2 V6 Q4, blue MGZR160, green MGF VVC and grey MGF 1.8i, and red MG Maestro T16.

MGF chatting on the Register and at http://www.the-t-bar.com

User avatar
andy8688
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:56 pm
MGF Register Region: Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 2001

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by andy8688 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:52 pm

Thanks for all the replys guys. I was chatting to a mate a few days ago and I was telling him about this problem, he mentioned have you checked the catalytic converter. No I havent, So last night I inspected underneath and banged the cat with the palm of my hand as he said to do, and there was a rattle in there, could this be the problem as when it gets hot could be trying to choke the engine and cause that smell.
Before I splash out on a replacement I need to be sure, any comments guys.
Andy

User avatar
Mykel
Regional Rep
Posts: 2759
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:13 pm
MGF Register Region: Europe
Model of Car: MG TF Monogram
Location: Schwalmtal, NRW, Germany

Re: T4 Diagnostics

Post by Mykel » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:55 am

Every issue you encounter reminds me of my first MGF, Andy. I also had a rattling cat back in the days and when I took it off in the end, the core had indeed shrunk to a potato-sized something. Obviously, I had to swap the cat for the emissions test, but apart from that no negative issues could be noticed when driving.
I had a look at the fault list recorded last weekend, and the dreaded P0170 error (fuel trim malfunction) is on that list. This could be a hint to a dying cat (or a faulty lambda sensor). But it didn’t show up again after the errors were erased.
Btw: would it be okay for you if I posted the screenshot with the error codes here?
MGTF:
2004 TF 135 in Monogram Spectre, black leather, RHD
MGZR:
2001 ZR 160 in Solar Red, LHD, LPG conv
Classic:
1972 MG Midget MkIII RWA in Blaze Red
MGF Register regional rep for Germany -- germany@mgfregister.org

Post Reply