Stainless Manifold/Downpipe

[beefio]

Is this likely to give me any performance gain over the standard item...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150645232994

[beefio]

Combined with my existing stainless back box which gives me about 5bhp and other mods are 52mm TB, K&N 57i induction...

[Steve White]

It is the same design as a standard manifold/downpipe just made in stainless, so its unlikely to offer any performance benefit.
What you need a is proper 4-2-1 design manifold like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGF-TF-Manifo ... SwsTxXiRmH

With a 4-2-1-, the 4 pipes leading from the engine flange (known as primaries) are much longer than on the original design manifold, which is what produces the gain in performance.
Because of this, you will also notice the there is no flange half way up like on a standard manifold which does make fitting a bit more tricky, as you need to get the car quite a way of the ground to get it in .

Also be wary of the accuracy of ebay descriptions. There are manifolds advertised on there described as 'performance', 'race' or '4-2-1' which are nothing of the sort.

[beefio]

I did think the design looked similar so wd wondering how it improves performance.

Unfortunately that 4-2-1 you linked to is out of my price range.

So are you saying that this Toyosports 4-2-1 also isn't going to give much gain, even though the listing says...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-EXH ... xy9X5TYlnW

"Improve throttle response & horsepower by 7-15bhp, dependant upon engine mods"

[Steve White]

The Toyosports 4-2-1 is a copy of the original exhaust designed. Its likely the internal welds will be a cleaner then on an original manifold & downpipe, but the gain from that would be quite small.
If you are very tight on budget and there is nothing wrong with the original downpipe, then you can clean up the welds to get a similar gain.

The key phase in the listing is "Improve throttle response & horsepower by 7-15bhp, dependant upon engine mods" which is very open and could be used to describe virtually any manifold, including the original. What you want to know is what improvement does it offer on its own.

Its also worth noting that 4-2-1 manifolds are not really designed to increase power, they are more about improving torque lower down the rev range, and most designs are optimised for non-VVC engines, so don't work so well with a VVC.

I'm not saying don't go for it if that's all your budget allows, just don't expect too much from it.

[beefio]

I'd be very happy with improved torque down the rev range, but as I have a VVC then the Toyosports manifold probably isn't going to do much for me and even spending £500 on a proper 4-2-1 like you previously linked to may not be a good return on the investment...

[BodgeItAndScarper]

It's worth bearing in mind that the usual rule of thumb is that you can't feel any difference of less than ~25% in power output. You'd need to add 35-40 horses to a VVC to begin to notice any difference on the road. Realistically, you're not going to get that out of a VVC without some proper tuning, not just an air intake and a cheap exhaust. I'm sure the experts round here can be more exact, but I'd guess the best you'd see with the intake and a good exhaust would be around 10-12bhp extra, and that's the end of the easy gains*.

*I saw a site the other day saying that polishing your intake and head to improve gasflow is an easy DIY job, so YMMV

ETA: You'd probably see more fun out of keeping the car stock and spending the money on the extra petrol you use keeping your foot in it the whole time.

[ZSx]

I have just taken delivery of a Toyosport 4-2-1 stainless manifold and flexi section.

The reason I went for it is cost, the fact its stainless and the fact my VVC sounds like a blooming spitfire as the current flexi is completely dead.

I will fit tomorrow and then report back on my impressions.

However, opening the box and they are very nice welds, the inside looks and feels much smoother than I was expecting and they provide all required gaskets and new stainless exhaust nuts and bolts for all connections. So it has already exceeded my expectations (at that price I wasn't expecting much!)

[beefio]

You'd need to add 35-40 horses to a VVC to begin to notice any difference on the road

My experience is very different to this...

I spent £28 on a 52mm TB and it make a noticeable improvement to the feel of my F...

I then spent £40 on a used K&N 57i induction kit and again it make a noticeable improvement to the feel of my F...

I then spent £150 on a used performance exhaust and overall my F now feels like a completely different car!

The throttle is much more responsive, acceleration is improved and it generally feels far more powerful and quicker.

That's why I'm also looking at other affordable mods that would give me further reasonable improvements.


ZS

I will fit tomorrow and then report back on my impressions.quote]

I would be very interested to hear what your real world experience is...also how much did you pay for it?

[ZSx]

I would be very interested to hear what your real world experience is...also how much did you pay for it?

The one I have is: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110624335328? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Note that I have a 97 F VVC, so apparently the exhaust is slightly different.

I will try to remember to take pictures while doing the work, however I am also (on the same morning) changing rear brakes on the Hyundai Coupe and got someone coming to collect the ZT... oh and two other people coming to take things off my breaker ZS ... then finally off to the Ace Cafe for a meet in the afternoon!

[beefio]

The one I have is: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110624335328? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Note that I have a 97 F VVC, so apparently the exhaust is slightly different.

Strange how that listing is by 'playtime360' but the seller info says they are also Toyosports, but they're using a different ebay name?

I have a mk2 2000 VVC which has the same mk1 exhaust system as yours.

Let me know how you get on...if it's anything like when I changed my exhaust then you will need some cutting equipment to get the rusted bolts off!

[BodgeItAndScarper]

You'd need to add 35-40 horses to a VVC to begin to notice any difference on the road

My experience is very different to this...

I spent £28 on a 52mm TB and it make a noticeable improvement to the feel of my F...

I then spent £40 on a used K&N 57i induction kit and again it make a noticeable improvement to the feel of my F...

I then spent £150 on a used performance exhaust and overall my F now feels like a completely different car!

The throttle is much more responsive, acceleration is improved and it generally feels far more powerful and quicker.

That's why I'm also looking at other affordable mods that would give me further reasonable improvements.

Feelings are unreliable, people report their cars feel faster with bloody Fuelsharks fitted. But I'm just going by general rule of thumb, I have no experience with Fs, and maybe the difference in the F is particularly noticeable.

There's one way to get a much better idea of the difference. Since you're not too far from me, we should do a side-by-side comparison once mine's ready to drive again

[beefio]

Feelings are unreliable

I hear what you're saying but this isn't a little different, my F feels like a completely different car, it is definitely far more responsive and quicker I have absolutely no doubt about that...trust me if it didn't then I'd just stick the parts I paid £200 for back on eBay and make a bit of profit on them!

But hay as long as I'm happy right, I suppose that's all that really matters...

But all I would say is for about £200 you should try it as IMO you can transform your F into a much more enjoyable drive and it was a no brainer for me...

[talkingcars]

....Note that I have a 97 F VVC, so apparently the exhaust is slightly different.....

The differences are the way the pipes are routed in the manifold and the earlier version has a 4 bolt interface with the town pipe.

As long as you use both compatible manifold and down pipe either can be used on any car.

Personally I think the later version looks a bit more flowy.

[BodgeItAndScarper]

Feelings are unreliable

I hear what you're saying but this isn't a little different, my F feels like a completely different car, it is definitely far more responsive and quicker I have absolutely no doubt about that...trust me if it didn't then I'd just stick the parts I paid £200 for back on eBay and make a bit of profit on them!

But hay as long as I'm happy right, I suppose that's all that really matters...

But all I would say is for about £200 you should try it as IMO you can transform your F into a much more enjoyable drive and it was a no brainer for me...

Well, it's only a rule of thumb, and it focuses on headline power figures. If you've unlocked a fair bit more torque lower down due to better breathing, that would let you stay in one gear longer and so improve your real-world acceleration.

I was half-serious that at some point we should compare yours to mine, you're not very far from me. I'd hazard a guess that from a standing start we'd be relatively equal, but if we both got on the power at 3k rpm in 3rd, you'd leave me behind.

[beefio]

Where are you?

I actually find the power lower down the gears and revs has increased. My F had plenty of power over 4K revs but now feels more powerful from the get go...

[beefio]

I will fit tomorrow and then report back on my impressions.

How did you get on with this?

[ZSx]

I will fit tomorrow and then report back on my impressions.

How did you get on with this?

Some photos, apologies none fitted

No dramas fitting, old bolts came of relatively easy, you can see in one photo why it needed to be done as the old flexi was completely dead!

So, I drove it to ace cafe and back (about an hour each way) and it sounds much better, its lost the tinny sound my vvc had before the flexi went and is a deeper note overall.

Performance wise it feels sharper and more eager to pull away, not sure there is much extra in it top end, but also worth mentioning that it was down on power cos of the blow anyway, so might be placebo and might be restoring power.

Still for me it is much improved and I am happy

If you are ever winchester way, let me know and you can give the F a lookover / power comparison with yours

[BodgeItAndScarper]

Where are you?

I actually find the power lower down the gears and revs has increased. My F had plenty of power over 4K revs but now feels more powerful from the get go...

North London, so not too far from Rickmansworth.

[beefio]

I asked the ebay seller about the bhp gain and this is the conversation...read from the bottom up...


playtime360:

over the standard system yes

Kind Regards

Rachel

Playtime360 customer support

0844 693 2449

Special offers at http://www.playtime360.co.uk


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YOU:

So you are saying that I will get a minimum increase of 7 bhp?


playtime360:

Improve throttle response & Horsepower by 7-15 BHP


YOU:

So if I have a performance stainless back box and standard Cat already fitted, what additional bhp do you think I will gain by fitting this manifold/downpipe?


playtime360:

Hi no it has not been tested on RR it a ball part figure based on the cars other exhaust mods


YOU:

Hi

The listing says "Improve Horsepower by 7-15 BHP" has this been tested and verified on a rolling road?

Thanks