Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

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JustExtreme
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Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by JustExtreme » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:58 pm

'Got my eye on an F & a TF' (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23629&start=100#p183037) was my original thread, figured it would be worth starting a new one about this rather than continuing to stretch that one out.

I bought the car back in late August/beginning of September for £1.4k (asking was £2k) from a private seller and I used a big checklist I found on here on which most things seemed alright but unfortunately I wasn't able to look underneath.

The below is the list of issues provided by a specialist place from when I took it for a health check at the weekend. Never seen so many TF's and F's in one place! There are some things mentioned and showed to me on the day which appear not to have made the list i.e. the rear subframe had some corrosion in the centre, nearside wishbone quite rusty, front offside subframe mount crumbling. Will follow up about those.

Front and rear MG badges faded
Skuttle gromits missing
o/s door hinge – faulty with heavy play
Strut bar loose – cross bars over the engine
Clutch fluid showing high water content
Brake fluid 2% water content
n/s/f suspension arm – dry and knocking may just need greasing
n/s/r tyre close to limit
n/s/r compliance bush weak and faulty
n/s/f wheel bearing – advisory
o/s/f lower wishbone has play
Rear brakes will need replacing showing only 50% efficiency
o/s/f disc showing corrosion – future job
Front pads on o/s lower than n/s – needs investigating
Heavy oil leak from n/s/r drive shaft
Oil leak on top end of engine – needs stripping down to investigate – could be cam carrier/rocker cover/cam seals
No signs of uprated oil rail fitted
Headgasket fitted does not look like multi layered
Suspension on test drive seems like it bottoms out
Rear exhaust strap rotten.

So what I really want to try to work out is whether it's worth keeping and sorting and how much it's likely to cost or if I should sell it on while it's got over 6 months left on the MOT and try to pick one up that is in a bit better condition. Tough one... I know I won't likely get back what I paid for it but accept that as just a roll of the dice.

I have no experience working on cars however I did pick up a workshop manual when I bought it in case I fancied a frustrating new hobby or had to take it to a garage that doesn't know them.

Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge/experience
Last edited by JustExtreme on Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

beefio
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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by beefio » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:39 pm

Oh dear...

Well you could do most of that yourself and it would have you a load of money but you will need to have the right tools and a lot of time to research how to do it, that's what I did...but it ain't easy!

I don't want to say I told you so, but if you look back at my first response on your old thread I said...

"I would say spend as much as you can afford on the best example you can find, as if you buy a cheap one it'll probably only end up costing you in the long term, so it can be a false economy"

I did exactly the same as you, ignored the advise on here and just went and brought one I liked the look of, but then spent a lot of time and money putting it right and I still am 3 years later! I also took mine to an MG specialist who said it needed over £1,400 of work doing at the time, but I recon I did/got it done for less than half that...

If you can't do it yourself then I think the list above that really needs doing (I would bother with the HG/oil rail if it's running fine) is going to cost you at least £700-£1,000 at a garage...but you need to go and get some quotes, can the specialist that inspected it not price the work for you?

How much did you pay for it? If it was £300 not big deal, if it was £1,000 then you'd get a really good MGF/TF for around £2,000.

The question is how much to you like this particular MG and are you prepared to spend a lot of time and/or money putting it right?

It would be far easier and cheaper to just 'spend as much as you can afford on the best example you can find'...I learnt that from my own experience...

Another good idea is to get it inspected before you buy it, or take someone on here who knows about these cars to at least give you a chance.

Good luck!

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by JustExtreme » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:56 pm

beefio wrote:I don't want to say I told you so, but if you look back at my first response on your old thread I said...

"I would say spend as much as you can afford on the best example you can find, as if you buy a cheap one it'll probably only end up costing you in the long term, so it can be a false economy"
I used the checklist and according to that thought it was a good example (didn't get to look underneath though) hence parting with £1.4k (2k was asking price, good job I didn't pay that!)
beefio wrote:I did exactly the same as you, ignored the advise on here and just went and brought one I liked the look of, but then spent a lot of time and money putting it right and I still am 3 years later! I also took mine to an MG specialist who said it needed over £1,400 of work doing at the time, but I recon I did/got it done for less than half that...
I wouldn't say I ignored the advice completely - I just seem to have missed a bunch of stuff due to not being able to look underneath. Live and learn I suppose :)
beefio wrote:If you can't do it yourself then I think the list above that really needs doing (I would bother with the HG/oil rail if it's running fine) is going to cost you at least £700-£1,000 at a garage...but you need to go and get some quotes, can the specialist that inspected it not price the work for you?
Yeah I figured the HG should be ok for now even if it isn't the preferred multi-layer one. If it goes again I'd probably go with MG Rover Mobile Mechanics to get it sorted. I'll ask for a breakdown in pricing from the specialist place although obviously being specialists I imagine the labour rate is a little higher than average.
beefio wrote:How much did you pay for it? If it was £300 not big deal, if it was £1,000 then you'd get a really good MGF/TF for around £2,000.

The question is how much to you like this particular MG and are you prepared to spend a lot of time and/or money putting it right?

It would be far easier and cheaper to just 'spend as much as you can afford on the best example you can find'...I learnt that from my own experience...
I paid £1.4k (2k was asking price) as it seemed to be in very good condition at the time according to the checklist I used and others that I viewed and test drove before it. I like the car and driving it is enjoyable but I'm not particularly attached to it so would happily try and sell it on and try to get a better example if that seems to be the better option.

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by beefio » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:01 pm

I hear what you’re saying.

If you’re willing to take it to a garage and pay them to do what needs doing then that will be easier, but I think it will be cheaper to just sell it and guy a really good one, but then you still have to actually find a really good one...

I’d get some prices and make a decision from there...you can also buy parts cheaper on eBay and just pay for the labour which is what I did if I wasn’t able to do the work myself...

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by MrNatural » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:50 pm

Like any older sports car work has to be done on a regular basis. If you see this as a car you want to enjoy for several years and learn to love despite its foibles, then spend the money and see it as having fun rather than an investment. However, if you want a car as an investment too, this will take many years. But if you want to keep an MG for many years, sell the one you have and buy a really good one for a lot more money.

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by beefio » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:24 pm

I don’t think a good one would be a lot more money, £1,400 spent and let’s say another £1,000 for a garage to put it right...for £2,400 you’d be able to buy a really good one that someone else has already spent a ton of time and money on. Granted there will always be on going costs but I haven’t found these that much if you’re organised and source cheap parts on eBay...

I’ve really enjoyed learning how to fix my F it’s a great hobby just wish I had more time to do it...

There’s no right or wrong answer just do what’s best for you!

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by daz » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:50 pm

OK, I'll chime in here.

THERE'S NOTHING THERE TO REALLY WORRY ABOUT.


Front and rear MG badges faded so what?
Skuttle gromits missing as above
o/s door hinge – faulty with heavy play no biggy
Strut bar loose – cross bars over the engine lift rear of hood & try tightening the 10mm bolts
Clutch fluid showing high water content ask a garage to bleed it if it's bothering you
Brake fluid 2% water content again, as above
n/s/f suspension arm – dry and knocking may just need greasing get it greased up
n/s/r tyre close to limit wear & tear, no biggy, you were going to change them anyway
n/s/r compliance bush weak and faulty not a massive issue
n/s/f wheel bearing – advisory get it looked at as & when
o/s/f lower wishbone has play get it greased up & see if that helps
Rear brakes will need replacing showing only 50% efficiency may free up with use
o/s/f disc showing corrosion – future job it'll clean up as you use it
Front pads on o/s lower than n/s – needs investigating don't understand this
Heavy oil leak from n/s/r drive shaft get this looked at asap
Oil leak on top end of engine – needs stripping down to investigate – could be cam carrier/rocker cover/cam seals how big a leak? Why strip the engine down to diagnose? Surely an external looking over will help
No signs of uprated oil rail fitted oh my god, so what
Headgasket fitted does not look like multi layered as above
Suspension on test drive seems like it bottoms out how does it feel to you?
Rear exhaust strap rotten.they all are

What happened to the rusty sub frame & wish bone?

p.s, you should have bought mine, lol. Only kidding.
Last edited by daz on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by beefio » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:46 pm

50% brake efficiency...I’d be worried about personally!

Clutch fluid change
Brake fluid change
n/s/f suspension arm
n/s/r tyre
n/s/r compliance bush
n/s/f wheel bearing
o/s/f lower wishbone
Rear brakes
Heavy oil leak from n/s/r drive shaft
Oil leak on top end of engine
Suspension pump up

I’d say that lot wants doing and I recon would cost at least a £700 at a garage...

It’s saying the front pads appear to be wearing unevently which isn’t good...

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by daz » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:39 pm

beefio wrote:

Suspension pump up


On a TF?

My outlook has always been, just get sorted what you can, when you can, get the important bits done first then work through the rest as you can.

OK, you could sell up at a loss & buy another unknown car & start again with a better or worse car, that's the throw of the dice. Once everything's done it's out the way & you can hopefully enjoy many years of trouble free motoring, till the next problem :lol:

Like many enthusiasts I imagine my car owes me much more than I could ever get back, I've never added it up, but I know as far as possible I can just get in & go wherever I want to without to much worry.

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by beefio » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:16 am

daz wrote:
beefio wrote:

Suspension pump up


On a TF?
Good point! :lol:

Even more concerning then, what causes a TF to bottom out...shocks?

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by daz » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:48 am

Doubt it'll be shocks, maybe springs. IF there is actually a problem.

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by JustExtreme » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:52 pm

Will get back with a proper reply later but here are the images including the rear subframe corrosion, front n/s wishbone, and front o/s subframe mount https://imgur.com/gallery/P7yWO

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by daz » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:17 pm

I can't really tell much from the pictures, the subframe looks like it "may" be surface rust, a wire brush & hammerite would sort it if it is. The front wishbone doesn't look to bad, again if it's worrying you brush it down & give it a coat of paint. The mount can be replaced quite cheaply by the mobile mechanics.

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by JustExtreme » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:13 pm

beefio wrote:I hear what you’re saying.

If you’re willing to take it to a garage and pay them to do what needs doing then that will be easier, but I think it will be cheaper to just sell it and guy a really good one, but then you still have to actually find a really good one...

I’d get some prices and make a decision from there...you can also buy parts cheaper on eBay and just pay for the labour which is what I did if I wasn’t able to do the work myself...
Yeah it seems like whatever TF you get it will have it's share of niggles unless you pay a lot up front to begin with for one from some place that does them up or whatever. Pending prices I am considering keeping this one and getting the major stuff sorted i.e. the oil leaks and front nearside subframe mount and getting various things greased up.
MrNatural wrote:Like any older sports car work has to be done on a regular basis. If you see this as a car you want to enjoy for several years and learn to love despite its foibles, then spend the money and see it as having fun rather than an investment. However, if you want a car as an investment too, this will take many years. But if you want to keep an MG for many years, sell the one you have and buy a really good one for a lot more money.
Good points - it is a car for fun and enjoyment and not intended as an investment at all. I think all the issues from the report just made me panic a bit. I'm fine with spending money to maintain it just need to make sure it doesn't become too much of a money pit and source parts as cheaply as possible (without compromising on their quality). I could also probably do with finding a good lone mechanic around here who is willing to work on it I mean I know a guy over Dudley way who did the HG on my old Rover 75 so could always take it over there to save a bit on the labour that comes from going to a fully staffed garage for investigating the oil leaks etc.
beefio wrote:I don’t think a good one would be a lot more money, £1,400 spent and let’s say another £1,000 for a garage to put it right...for £2,400 you’d be able to buy a really good one that someone else has already spent a ton of time and money on. Granted there will always be on going costs but I haven’t found these that much if you’re organised and source cheap parts on eBay...

I’ve really enjoyed learning how to fix my F it’s a great hobby just wish I had more time to do it...

There’s no right or wrong answer just do what’s best for you!
I'm thinking re: the top end oil leak I'm gonna have a visual check myself and see if it's something obvious like the cam cover/rocker gasket.
I can't really look at the drive shaft one unless I buy some axle stands... would likely need a mechanic/garage to take care of that one anyway.
daz wrote: Front and rear MG badges faded so what?
I thought they made the car go faster if they were new and shiny :-)
daz wrote:o/s door hinge – faulty with heavy play no biggy
Never noticed anything about this - I guess I'd just sort it if it actually became a problem.
daz wrote:Strut bar loose – cross bars over the engine lift rear of hood & try tightening the 10mm bolts
Will try this when I take the engine cover off to visually check that top end oil leak. Do you know what kind of wrench I need for these or will just regular wrenches be alright?
daz wrote:Clutch fluid showing high water content ask a garage to bleed it if it's bothering you
Brake fluid 2% water content again, as above
What kind of symptoms would this cause? Can't say I've noticed anything out of the ordinary with either the clutch or the brakes
daz wrote:n/s/f suspension arm – dry and knocking may just need greasing get it greased up
o/s/f lower wishbone has play get it greased up & see if that helps
Will get these greased when I get the oil leaks investigated.
daz wrote:n/s/r tyre close to limit wear & tear, no biggy, you were going to change them anyway
I'm thinking I'll get those oil leaks sorted and bits greased up and then get a full set of falkens with 4 wheel balancing and tracking if necessary.
daz wrote:n/s/r compliance bush weak and faulty not a massive issue
Would it be worth getting a full set of polybushes? Seem to be around £35 on ebay but not sure how much they'd be in labour.
daz wrote:Rear brakes will need replacing showing only 50% efficiency may free up with use
o/s/f disc showing corrosion – future job it'll clean up as you use it
They seem pretty good when compared with the ones on my Suzuki Swift but then these are sports car brakes so I guess they're supposed to be even higher performing...
daz wrote:Front pads on o/s lower than n/s – needs investigating don't understand this
Seems like it's saying the brake pads are lower on one side than the other - bit weird.
daz wrote:Heavy oil leak from n/s/r drive shaft get this looked at asap
Oil leak on top end of engine – needs stripping down to investigate – could be cam carrier/rocker cover/cam seals
how big a leak? Why strip the engine down to diagnose? Surely an external looking over will help
Gonna check the top end one visually myself at some point to see if I can work out where it's coming from. I don't have axle stands or access to a ramp so won't be able to look at the drive shaft one. Will book it in somewhere to investigate/resolve both shortly.
daz wrote:No signs of uprated oil rail fitted oh my god, so what
Headgasket fitted does not look like multi layered as above
Yeah these seem more like "nice to have" than essentials. If the worst happened and the HG went again I'd probably get Mobile Mechanics to do it but doesn't seem to be any point in changing it pre-emptively considering it was done less than a year ago.

daz wrote:Suspension on test drive seems like it bottoms out how does it feel to you?
daz wrote:Doubt it'll be shocks, maybe springs. IF there is actually a problem.
Feels ok to me but I've only test driven 3 or 4 TF's so who knows.

daz wrote:
beefio wrote:

Suspension pump up


On a TF?

My outlook has always been, just get sorted what you can, when you can, get the important bits done first then work through the rest as you can.

OK, you could sell up at a loss & buy another unknown car & start again with a better or worse car, that's the throw of the dice. Once everything's done it's out the way & you can hopefully enjoy many years of trouble free motoring, till the next problem :lol:

Like many enthusiasts I imagine my car owes me much more than I could ever get back, I've never added it up, but I know as far as possible I can just get in & go wherever I want to without to much worry.
Yeah this sort of approach makes sense - no point doing things way before they even become a problem. Not looking to have a pristine TF just one thats relatively safe and enjoyable to drive.

I'm not really looking at the car as an investment more just a bit of fun that probably won't have a great resale value if I ever tire of it so paying a bit out to maintain the essential issues and keep having fun seems fine.

Re: the VVC units being a bit tapety is that likely to cause any issues in future or just the noise? I kinda like the noise tbh.

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by daz » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:07 pm

I'd say 80 -90% of the vvcs I've seen are a little noisy to some extent.

Normal spanners will sort the bolts for the cross braces, they are the same bolts you'll need to undo to look at the top of the engine.

Water in the fluid will make the pedal feel spongy.

Poly bushes are a personal choice, they make the ride a bit harder.

The mobile mechanics will be able to sort all the issues you've raised & I imagine it'll be a lot cheaper than a local garage.


If you can get down to me either thursday or monday evening I'll look over the oil leaks with you. Takes me around 40 minutes to telford from here

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by talkingcars » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:05 pm

A 10mm ratchet spanner is useful for undoing the 3 bolts under the t bar.
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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by daz » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:29 pm

talkingcars wrote:A 10mm ratchet spanner is useful for undoing the 3 bolts under the t bar.

Don't forget to throw these 3 bolts away & never refit them again. :lol:

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by talkingcars » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:42 pm

I went further, chucked all the bolts and fitted some clips.
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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by hammond » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:29 pm

talkingcars wrote:I went further, chucked all the bolts and fitted some clips.
Oh do show us then ;)

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Re: Advice re: issues with recently acquired TF160

Post by Geoff.F » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:46 pm

If I were a "MG Specialist" then I may have found a good money earner.
For me, I would run it and fix what my MOT man told me needed doing but then he has had my cars for 30+ years.
My own car that I bought new in 2000 is an exception as I have tools and a litle experience to keep it nice.
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