Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

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MK6
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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by MK6 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:14 pm

What I meant was, people do one of replicas and still get it road worthy. I'm aware of the costs whereabouts of something like that. But it highly depends on what you do. If you heavily modify a car to the point where it's barely recognizable or even the same car mechanically and visually, that's one level. But a simple engine swap while still the same car apart from normal things which need no extra TUV aproval such as better brakes etc, that's a totally different thing.

Now what I need is some chat about engine swaps. ;)

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by talkingcars » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:36 pm

MK6 wrote:OK, great. Understood. Thanks. That's an easy job.

I would like to ask again, if relocating the tank, a V6 engine could fit without further modifications besides making the bulk head behind the seats solid?
Don't forget modifying the bulkhead between tank and engine.
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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by MK6 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:24 pm

I guess by modifying the bulkhead between tank and engine you mean taking such bulk head off to accommodate the larger engine.

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by talkingcars » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:01 pm

Yes.
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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by Rob Bell » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:06 pm

All of the above comments are valid. However, there is no real reason why you couldn’t or can’t fit any engine you fancy into an MGF - within reason (a 27 litre RR Merlin is not really going to fit!)

KV6, k-series turbos have been done quite a few times. Honda V-tech too.

The parameters for an MGF engine swop will be an engine that is narrow enough, short enough and not too wide and ideally be designed for tranvrse engine applications.

Volvo Di a transverse V8, but they’re as rare as hens teeth and I’m not sure it’d would it the MGF engine bay.

Consider too the gear box - do you keep the PG1 of the original car? It’s an old design now, so if you can find a complete tranSaxle that won’t put the drive shafts at an extreme angle, that might be your best bet.

Finally, if you can find a complete tranSaxle that weighs roughly the same as the original then that saves more expense and development in sorting the suspension.

IT CAN BE DONE ;)

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by MK6 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:48 pm

Thanks. Glad to hear some good news. :thumbsu: I was starting to wonder if I had posted in the wrong forums. As responses were not only slow to come but also not very encouraging. :)

But since I had the impression this was THE MGF forum, I thought maybe it's slow because it's Christmas time.

Yes, I've been researching about V6 used transversely. There are some nice ones such as the Alfa Busso, which has been used in several FWD cars and go up to 3.2 liters with 250bhp NA. But I would like to keep it all British if I can. Although that will mean the KV6 or maybe some Jaguar V6 as I can't think of any other modern British V6 which could be affordable.

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by quick_spider » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:38 pm

Ralph from Metropower mated a v8 to a pg1 which sits in the back of his metro. Pretty sure he’s using an MGF subframe too so a similar thing should be possible in an F

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by MK6 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:38 pm

Yeah. I was just reading about a KV6 GTM Libra. Much shorter wheelbase than a MGF or TF and also uses Metro bits as the above.

By the way, every video review I see they complain the seating is too high. Is it just a matter of installing lower seats? Given you are tall enough to still see over the bonnet of course.

And the TF only came with electrical power steering? I really dislike electrical power steering.
Last edited by MK6 on Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by Rob Bell » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:09 pm

There are a few tricks to lower the seat. In my race car I designed mounting plates that the seat side mounts bolt to. If you keep the standard seats, there’s a clever mod by VHS that lowers the standard squab cushion.

V8 in a VX220 (aka Lotus Elise) has also been done using the old Rover Buick V8. But that’s really old tech, and the MGF engine bay and subframe is a little tighter...

The KV6 is a 90 degree vee: most V6s are 60 degrees - which means is it relatively wide engine, although perhaps less tall. Other V6s should be possible and I’d imagine that the Jag V6 might make quite a good choice if the measurements suit.

Not sure which gearbox to use, but it wouldn’t be impossible to fabricate an adapter plate to re-use the original PG1 gearbox... :)

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by MK6 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:01 pm

I think a V8 is too much. V6 is fine. :)

Is the original PG1 box robust enough to take more power?

Yes, a Jaguar engine would probably be more refined than the KV6. But the thing about a Jaguar V6 is that all Jaguars are RWD, so they are all longitudinal engine. The only exception I can think of is the X-Type. But that engine is actually a Ford engine if I'm not wrong. So is it any better or more refined than the KV6? Finding a transverse Jaguar engine doesn't seem to be an option.

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by talkingcars » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:24 am

MK6 wrote:I was starting to wonder if I had posted in the wrong forums. As responses were not only slow to come but also not very encouraging. :)

But since I had the impression this was THE MGF forum, I thought maybe it's slow because it's Christmas time.
Other forums are available but, as with this one, most MG Rover forums have slowly got quieter as we get further from the death of MG Rover.
MK6 wrote:And the TF only came with electrical power steering? I really dislike electrical power steering.
Don't knock it till you've tried it, from your previous posts you haven't.
Some versions have a non EPAS steering set up.
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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by MK6 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:47 pm

No I haven't driven a TF yet. I have only driven a F. But I dislike electrical power steerings in general. I also saw some reviewers complaining of lack of feeling for the road. This is one of the characteristics of electrical power steerings.

So the TF is indeed only electrical?

What is a non EPAS steering set up?

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by Geoff.F » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:03 pm

Early MGFs came with or without EPAS. I do not recollect if EPAS became Standard due to customer preference or Compliance requierments but was standard from MY2000 (as the adjustable wheel) like ABS which was a Compliance.. Pull the fuse to turn it off

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by MK6 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:55 pm

By pulling the fuse to turn it off, you mean making it feel like a car without power steering at all?

I have heard that with some cars this can present a safety problem and even interfere with other electrical systems in the car. Pulling the fuse.
Not the case with the MGF and MGTF?

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by MK6 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:12 am

Tried searching for swap threads but couldn't find any. Anybody has any tips or links? Thanks.

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by talkingcars » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:23 pm

MK6 wrote:By pulling the fuse to turn it off, you mean making it feel like a car without power steering at all?

I have heard that with some cars this can present a safety problem and even interfere with other electrical systems in the car. Pulling the fuse.
Not the case with the MGF and MGTF?
No such problem with the F/TF.
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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by Rob Bell » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:41 am

MGFs come with multiple ECUs that all function largely independently - which means you can remove one from the system with no ill effect :) No CAN bus in an MGF (or TF!) :thumbsu:

A longitudinal V6 can be used - you’ll just need to be a little smarter with fabrication I suspect, adapting things like the air intake etc.

Do you have the measurements for the Jag V6?

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Re: Engine Swap for a larger engine? Possible?

Post by MK6 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:11 pm

Thanks. That's good news. It's one of the most annoying parts of new cars. Everything must talk to everything within the car.

About the engine, maybe even change the whole set up to a longitudinal? Would be more work but would open up the engine options. I don't think a V6 is much longer than it is wider anyway, so if it fits in transverse it would probably fit in longitudinal too.

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