How is the MGTF as a sports car?

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flyingbanana
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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by flyingbanana » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:06 pm

The real killer for weight on the mgf/tf is the subframes and the tf rear suspension is even heavier than the f. I want to get a good set of drawings of the rear suspension of an elise so I can fabricate a new rear subframe/suspension for the race car.

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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by MK6 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:29 pm

OK then. After much research it seems the MG TF may not be the correct platform for my project car. My intention was to make it into a fast car. An Elise or Boxter eater. But for that an engine swap is a minimum. It seems it would be more trouble than worth it and I better start with something else?

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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by talkingcars » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:57 pm

Surely an engine swap will be required for what ever you use as a base unless it is already a Boxter or Elise beater.
Unless you add un-natural options such as a charger or nitrous.
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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by MK6 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:31 pm

talkingcars wrote:Surely an engine swap will be required for what ever you use as a base unless it is already a Boxter or Elise beater.
Unless you add un-natural options such as a charger or nitrous.
You are absolutely right. This was exactly my point. I would need at a minimum an engine swap. And from my engine swap thread, if you remember it: viewtopic.php?t=23950 , the prospect of engine swaps for the MG looked pretty bad.

That thread told me engine swaps are not a good idea with the MG and would be very difficult.

This thread basically told me the chassis might not be worth it, especially if an engine swap is as difficult as that thread seems to imply.

So all together this made me arrive at the conclusion that the MG TF is the wrong choice of platform for my project. Maybe I should look at other affordable rear mid engine platforms such as the Fiero, MR2 etc?

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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by talkingcars » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:41 pm

IIRC the general approach was on altering the car as little as possible.

If you are after a Q car you can move the fuel tank to the front, take out the bulk heads either side of the engine and create a massive space for what ever you fancy.
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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by MK6 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:49 am

talkingcars wrote:IIRC the general approach was on altering the car as little as possible.

If you are after a Q car you can move the fuel tank to the front, take out the bulk heads either side of the engine and create a massive space for what ever you fancy.
Yes we talked about moving fuel tank, bulk heads etc on the thread. But it still sounds like not only a lot of work but also risky as nobody has done it. If the chassis was fantastic it would be worth it. But by this thread it doesn't seem like the chassis has a lot of potential . Such as the VX220, which is praised a lot and is said to be very underrated. You drop a V6 or V8 in that and you basically have a supercar. So it makes all the money and work worth it. I know a VX220 is many times more expensive than a MG, although it will eventually become cheap too. But it was just an example.

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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by Buzzy-Beans » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:36 am

Surely, isn't the VX220 basically an Elise with different outer body panels?
I have been watching them for quite some time and it looks like they have well and truly bottomed out price wise and are actually now starting to climb.

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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by MK6 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:18 pm

This is a misconception. Yes, it was built by Lotus for Opel and they were involved in the design. But it's not just an Elise with different body panels. This is internet jibberish.

And over here they are not going up, yet.

But like I said it was just an example. I could have as well said a MR2 MK2. Cheap and a competent chassis with a lot of potential. Not sure how easy engine swaps are. But I know several have been done and when the chassis is worth it, then the undertaking is worth it, even if complicated.

The impression I got here about the MG is, it would be a pita to do an engine swap and the chassis is not even worth the bother. Probably why not many engine swaps have been done. Pity. I had hopes.

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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by Rob Bell » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:54 am

TF has a good chassis with good steering feel and feedback. Like the MGF, an eminently trackable car. :) Engine swaps are possible and feasible - it's a question of what you're prepared to take on and spend. For a number of reasons, engine swaps in MGs has never really taken off - I think that is part of the MG culture thing. But there are a rising number of turbo conversions using the ZT 1.8T K-series :)

Where you go with a track car depends on what else you use it for. Most MGs have been used as daily drivers and for touring holidays etc - for which they are fabulous. If you want to go the track route, then it is not difficult to ditch a lot of weight. My track car (Project Shed) is currently around 990kg - and that includes a full roll cage (a hefty thing). You'll struggle to get it down to an Elise's weight, but if you want that, then get an Elise :)

You can have huge fun with these MGs, and there is massive parts and tuning supplies for them - largely because in the 1990s and early 2000s, the K-series was THE go-to engine for many small British sports car makers including Caterham and Lotus. Go on, you know you want to ;)

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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by MK6 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:32 pm

Well, my interest is not to build a track but a rather fast road car. :)

But it's a matter of money. I know that money no objection anything can be done. But then it defeats the purpose of going with a MG. If in the end you could have bought an already faster and better car with the money you spent, then it doesn't make sense. Especially when you have other affordable mid engine platforms to build from, which are more engine swap friendly and maybe also better chassis or suspensions. This is my point. After researching for a month on MG TFs and Fs what I came out with is engine swaps are too challenging and the chassis not any fantastic to need one anyway. Probably why it doesn't happen as often as it does for example with Fieros and MR2s.

Sure people track MG TFs and Fs. But they also track front wheel drive econoboxes. So that doesn't mean the chassis is fantastic or asking for more power.

By what I could learn during my research, I will spend a load of money on an alien engine swap nobody has ever done, just to end up with something that won't even drive as well as an Elise or Boxter stock, and will probably pay as much or even more.

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Re: How is the MGTF as a sports car?

Post by Rob Bell » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:07 pm

The chassis can cope with more power - and it is a good one - particularly the TF with the multi-link rear end. Contemporary road tests were always very complementary (and felt far more entertaining than an Audi TT for example). It is a higher grip chassis than the MX-5, and not so happy to slide the tail out. But it holds no serious vices - and certainly better than the MR2.

What this really boils down to is budget. MGFs and TFs are dirt cheap owing to their sales success in the UK when they were on sale. Supply and demand.

The cheapest engine conversions are going to be either a K16 turbo or a T16 turbo. The T16 is a tough engine and will happily be tuned to in excess of 350bhp. The K-series would need more extensive internal work to achieve this reliably (it's been done). But 200-240bhp is a reliable output from the K turbo with just a remap and a few very mild modifications. Plenty in a car that is just 1100kg (and may be less if you're clever with your modifications - 1000kg would seem a reasonable target for a road car).

Dare to be different! I have a K16 turbo that I want to fit to my MGF. Really looking forward to taking that forward. Mike Stafford is already offering a turn-key option if you wanted to consider that (and needed a test drive - they've also turbo-charged a TF160... :))

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