Any members here good at Microsoft Access?

[Mykel]

Sorry, ElectroSoldier, but I couldn't disagree more.

From loads of experience (not mine alone) MySQL is a very stable and powerful database engine, never had any issues with that. And PHP lets me write my own fine tuned import routines to all kinds of data input. We even had the need to offer address record import from various sources, from TXT to CSV and VCF formats once, could all be written in PHP to automatic file format detection for online upload of address files.

MSSQL and ASPX is costly, as you have to run a Windows Server machine. Plus .NET and ASPX development of course only runs under Windows. rom the user's point of view, I more than once encountered issues with ASPX generated web sites, some of them seem to run properly only when using the Internet Explorer.

[ElectroSoldier]

The import data options are about equal over both, it isnt about being able to import the data, its about the reliability of the data that is going in.

Rob said about some, though not all, VIN numbers might be incorrect through human error, fixing them with a script is possible, ofcourse, it doesnt matter if you use MSSQL or MySQL, the scripting it protty much the same, the reason I wouldnt do it like that is because the script might see and correct an error that doesnt actually exist.

And you shouldnt input incorrect data into the database.

If a person does the data entry there is of course a small chance of data input error, if a script does it for you you will never know if its 100% until your reports dont make any sense.

Of course the Windows platform is the thing, and yes it costs more for the licensing but the administrative costs are lower, because you dont have the Linux specialists claiming what they like because the client is blinded with the Linux science.
Ive never had trouble selling the Microsoft technology people know what they are getting, and if the admin is done properly they are fine servers, and the software that runs on them is fine too.
When I cost up a project it will always cost more to do it in a Linux environment...
There are technologies which are cross platform...

SQL Server is costly, however SQL Server Express is just as capable (especially for what Rob wants) and it is completely free, and he doesnt need a degree to make it work either, he can run and host the whole lot from his home desktop without a virtual machine in a HyperVisor running Linux.
Its all about what he has got, what he wants to do and what is most feasible.
Im presuming he wants it cheap... well if he really wanted he can do it all for free as Visual Studio is free SQL Server Express is free and he doesnt need to learn Linux to do any of what he wants to do to boot.

I didnt say MySQL is unstable, I said I didnt trust it... Ive seen many MySQL servers with holes you can drive a bus through, because the owner didnt really know all that much about it to fix it... and I fear in this case that will happen too, because Rob doesnt really want to learn how to do it, he just wants it to work... MySQL + PHP is a steeper learning curve over a longer term, MSSQL + .NET/ASPX will run on what he already knows, and Access is probably already owned and can use .NET/ASPX front ends as well as SQL server, you just dont get the access to the nice reporting features Access has in a .NET or ASP front end.

[powelly]

This forum is in php/mysql meaning you already have suitable hosting and who ever manages the forum can manage the register. Keeping them in the same language will simplify thing and allow integration of the two so that member profiles can be linked to the register and vehicles can be shown on people's foru
Profiles.

Of course being a php/mysql person I would recommend it as an asp person will say use sql, you will tend not to find people that are equally skilled in both, you will probably have to go with what the majority of you volunteers know.

[ElectroSoldier]

Thats fair enough, as an argument it has its merits.
But I would wonder at the "good idea" of having the membership database living on the same server as a forum.


As to the MySQL/PHP and MSSQL/ASP side of it, your right, I tend to go with businesses because theres more money in to as a freelancer.

But thats not to say the bigger companies dont use MySQL and PHP... its OSS tag puts some off, and attracts others in equal measures.

[Rob Bell]

Here's how the columns currenly line up in the Excel spreadsheet:

MGF Reg number Surame Foreame MGCC Membership # House Street Address 2 Address 3 City Post code Country Telephone (day) Telephone (evening) Mobile E-mail Model Vehicle Registration VIN Engine number Colour Year Date of registration Internet Current member of MGCC? Region Comments

You could probably populate your own data in this to play with it. You can see that for each entry there is a member and a car. Two cars, two entry points. Two members owning one car, two entry points. If old car, one new car, two entry points... you get the jist.

One other thing - I am compemplating splitting the post code into two fields - should make it easier to define MGFRegister regions automatically.

If database software is required, then either something free (MySQL) or something ubiquitous like Access is going to be the best options for the Register, as spending the Register's money on new licenced software is a big chunk of budget out of a finite fund used for event organising etc. Ideally, best not raided

Thanks guys - let me know what you can work out. If we can get a workable model on MySQL and on Access so we can compare, that might be an ideal starting point? Not expecting anyone to do the donkey work - unfortuantely for Dave (and probably me now!), that's going to be Dave's job with the assistance of others!

[Rob Bell]

Okay, a dummy data file. Don't try and phone up Beyonce Knowles please - that's a fictious number

MGF Register dummy data.xls

Dummy data file

(16 KiB) Downloaded 25 times

[Ralph]

As others have said, Access is not an RDBMS. SQL Server is little better. Neither of these were actually created by Microsoft from scratch - they were developed from a single user file system. Row locking in either of these is a joke. Instead, I would recommend either MySQL or PostgreSQL.

[Mykel]

Okay, a dummy data file. Don't try and phone up Beyonce Knowles please - that's a fictious number

Okay Rob,

time permitting I'll try and set something up and PM you the link.

Yet it's most disturbing that the entries are fake, I just thought about asking Alice Cooper over for a drink and jam session on the weekend.

[Rob Bell]

I often have Alice and Beyonce for dinner Mykel. Next time they're round, I'll drop you a line...

Ralph, many thanks - as I said before, this is well outside my area of expertise!

[ElectroSoldier]

As others have said, Access is not an RDBMS. SQL Server is little better. Neither of these were actually created by Microsoft from scratch - they were developed from a single user file system. Row locking in either of these is a joke. Instead, I would recommend either MySQL or PostgreSQL.

If you want to be academic, most of the is wrong.

While MySQL is more a data store, rather than a data management system, because there is no GUI provided in the software natively without 3rd party add-ins, while Access is the management system for the JET engine, and MSSQL has its management studio.
In MySQL you must either download and use a front-end or build your own to manage the data stored there.

Access is best described as a Personal RDBMS, while MSSSQL is a full up RDBMS with all the trimmings.

7 times out of 10 an enterprise who initiates a software development project with the intention of developing a database will not go for MySQL.
There are of course many very famous users of the software... Facebook and Google for instance, however Facebook was started by a kid in a dorm room, and used it because it was free to use legally, and Google doesn't use MySQL for their real money making enterprises such as the search engine.

MySQL is good, I cant say it isn't however in order for the club to get the best use from it add-ins will need to be used... or you can download MSSQL Server Express for free too... Yes Microsoft do make a free version of SQL Server for companies like the Register to use, there is no cost what-so-ever, however the reporting features as is are limited.... but you can use it as a data store and then use that copy of Access to act as a front end, and because you do you get all the reporting tools, form design tools etc without using the JET Engine technology.

Rob what version of Access do you already own?

[ElectroSoldier]

Rob, got a little something for you to look at, see if were thinking on the same lines as it where...

Its only a 10 minute coffee break job so it dont really work but it does give you an idea of what I mean about lookups and tables.

[Rob Bell]

Which version of Access? Depends on the machine I have, er, access to!

This machine I am currently using has an ancient version running Office 2000. At home, I think I have a more recent version - but I need to have a look and check.

Would be delighted to see what you've got so far!

[ElectroSoldier]

Ive done it in Access 2007, but I can make it in any version of access you like, from '97 to '10.

Its nothing fancy like I said, it uses look-up tables to select data like colour and car type... also a person can be a member and not own a car...

Only got tables, input forms, so it looks a little like Excel at the minute, but they can be added and branded after the table design is doing what it needs to.

[Rob Bell]

Looks like the more 'modern' version I have here at home is 2002!!!

But that's really great! I'll PM you my email (I think that the email associated to the forum may be a little out of date).

[ElectroSoldier]

Office XP....
Popular in its day))))

What Ive got should have no problem working in '02 as theres only the tables...

[artful.codger]

Okay, a dummy data file. Don't try and phone up Beyonce Knowles please - that's a fictious number

Course not, emailed instead.

[Rob Bell]

That's okay then.