Lowering Pins - DIY fitting?

[Phil_B]

How easy are these to fit? They seem to be really cheap to buy now and I always preferred my Fs lowered so I thought I might have a bash.

Cheers

Phil

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[Hainsie]

They are a little tricky, but worth doing to avoid your F looking like a 4 x 4 with the correct gas pressure.

There is an how to here: http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=290506

And info. here: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/DI ... _lower.htm

I'm sure there is another how to somewhere....

[Phil_B]

Hi. Thanks for the links, they're really useful. Any idea if it can be done without depressurising completely? If not I think I'd finish up getting them fitted at a garage that can do the whole thing in one go.

Cheers

Phil

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[Phil_B]

Does anyone know if this can be done without de-pressurising/removing the hydragas spheres? I'm pretty sure that Techspeed didn't remove the spheres when they did my first F, but I guess they had to let the pressure out at least a certain amount?

Thanks

Phil

[Reckless Rat]

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was necessary to depressurise AND then use the vacuum pump to retract the piston sifficiently to remove the pins...

[Phil_B]

Thanks folks. I ordered the pins from Mike yesterday (arrived this morning, top service ) and after some googling I've ordered myself a little tools pump and low loss connector to do the job with. Hopefully they'll be sharp with the delivery and I can get it done over the next week or so while I'm off work. Will take lots of photos and try and get a how too up (or how not to) once complete. Then I can set myself up as a mobile pump up man

Cheers

Phil

[Dieter K]

Phil,

the fitment looks easy on first hand. The problem is to get them in reliable for a longer time.

Take care with the white plastic frames and do not break them
Get a huge amount of high quality grease into the assy and check the fitment of the rubber gaiter frequently after you've finished to prevent from water ingress followed by heavy rust.
Some samples of rust due to water ingress are shown here.
http://www.mgfcar.de/suspension_knuckle/indes and x.htm

Me personally has removed the pins and cut down the alloy pistons of the hydragas units by 8mm each. Including shortening the small coil springs and the original pins shaft at the rear. Costs nothing but some mechanical works and is most reliable

[Phil_B]

Thanks Dieter, some pretty scary photos on there

I'm hoping that since the car is a weekend/nice weather toy that the rust issue will be reduced, but will still make sure to take your advice. Any recommendations on the correct grease for this job. I have some assembly grease from building my bike, but suspect I will need something a little more heavy duty?

Cheers

Phil

[Dieter K]

Phil,

I've not much sense about the right grease. Me used standard grease ending up with such poor result
However there should be some advise on grease to be used in other threads. Master Geoff F. is used to be known as a specialist on such items.

I would think something like the grease used for CV joints may be fine ?
But, ... the major problem is correct fitment and good reliable seal of the upper rubber gaiters. They get heavy crumpled with the short knuckles and slip off easy later.

Be carful.

[Rich in Vancouver]

Good advice from Dieter.
The nylon on the knuckles gets very brittle with age, and the nylon bit isn't available separately,
only with new standard pins fitted.

[Phil_B]

"Holy Thread resurrection Batman!"

So, after using the grease gun pump to top up my saggy suspension yesterday (and it all went very well, ne'er a dribble in sight, and raised the car much quicker than I had expected from reading previous posts) I was a little dismayed to see my now somewhat utilitarian looking MGF in all it's glory. This one was way down on ride height (around the 330mm mark) and my previous 2 Fs were both lowered by the lovely people at Techspeed, so this came as quite a shock!

So, I'm going to have a crack at the lowering pins this weekend, time, weather and family permitting. I want to make sure I have everything I need ready to go so will need to buy some good quality grease for assembly and will probably make up a crude way of measuring the ride height accurately from the ground rather than the wheel centre.

But the question I have now is where exactly do I measure to? What is classed as the top of the wheel arch? Is it the underside of the plastic liner bit, or the start of the visible metal of the wing? This might seem daft but there is about a 5mm difference.

Thanks in advance

[Rob Bell]

Like Dieter, I'd advise against lowering pins. They're a nightmare, and the ones I suspect you've got aren't supplied with the rubber boots or the nylon bases. You've seen the rust effecting these aftermarket items.

Moreover, from experience, you WILL break at least one of the nylon ball joints removing the original pins - and at around this point you'll start to wish you never started...

Honestly, as Dieter mentions above, shortening the alloy displacement cone's shaft is much easier - http://mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/DIY/su ... /index.htm - I chopped 9mm (which is what Tech-speed used to do) which provides a ride-height drop of 27mm.

[Phil_B]

OK, so I'm suitably scared off.

Looking at your article this is the process TS used to use to just lower the car (their stage 1 if you will). When they did this to my first F they didn't remove the spheres, but just replaced the displacer cone with a pre modified item and swapped out the pins similarly. How easy are the cones to remove/refit, as this would seem the best option if not too difficult?

[robbie1003]

I must say mine looks a bit high now its back to its original height but not having a bum clenching moment whenever going over speed obstructions in the road i feel is a advantage so that's how she's staying.

[Plezier]

Hmmmm need to give this some thought as I was "thinking" about lowering the VVC. Luckily I have a couple of spare front spheres and a couple of spare knuckle pins complete with intact plastic bits. Just need to acquire a set of rear spheres to be able to cut down the inserts then fit. Fronts will be easy as the sub frame is not on the car of course .


Rears will be another matter of course.

[Phil_B]

How easily will the cones come off the spheres when there is no pressure on them, have you tried? I'm keen to try and do this without taking the spheres out of the car if possible.

[Plezier]

No I have not tried to remove them ........................... as yet. Perhaps I will have ago tomorrow depending upon weather.

Edit:- Just remmbered that of course I have one failed rear sphere so perhaps that's the one to try and play with cutting etc.

[Uncletone]

Hi Phil,

At the weekend I had to put a spacer on my N/S Rear knuckle to lift the ride height to its correct height. Being a "Jerry Hat Trick" I need it as high as possible to get in not lower as I can't get out.

Anyway once the system is depressurised and you need to disconnect the shroud from around the sphere and then disconnect the pipe to the sphere, I found that you can only get at the cone when the sphere is out of the car. Its tight and tricky, but once the car is on axle stands under the subframe, if you jack the body up I found it easier to get them out.

All the best with that Phil.

Tone

[Rich in Vancouver]

Not a lot more to add, but having installed a set I agree with Tone that the cover plates do have to come off the spheres to get things apart, and breaking the nylon knuckles is a real issue as the knuckles do get brittle with age and they get trapped in the socket with rust.
When you do the job it will be really helpful to have a source for replacement nylon knuckles. (As mentioned before you have to buy them as a set with stock pins which have to be swapped out) It's also a good idea to have some spare nuts and bolts available to replace the ones holding the sphere covers onto the subframe. The grease-gun type pump is capable of pumping the suspension back up without trouble.
For a competent home mechanic it's a do-able weekend job. Just make sure you have a ride to work available on Monday in case you can't find replacement knuckles in time!

[Phil_B]

I'm not going to let this thread die gracefully!.

I have now lowered my car by reducing the size of the displacer cone and knuckle as per Rob and Dieter's sage advice! I also have adjustable shocks (GAZ).

I suspect that as a result of this, and the fact that my spheres have been re-charged with nitrogen, I most certainly need to get the tracking done. I know that Techspeed used to use a non standard tracking set up and I was always very happy and confident with the way the car handled after they had worked their magic, so I would ideally like the same settings again.

Does anyone know what settings they used please? I have a feeling it was 0'5" toe in for front and rear but cannot be sure (it was a long time ago!)

Thanks in advance

Phil