Suplex Suspension

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Jenever
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Suplex Suspension

Post by Jenever » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:42 pm

Good evening gentlemen.
Having recently aquired an MGF for my wife at a local auction, we went to get some pottery and she took a shine to the little silver MGF in the corner, I wish to join your forum.
The story may or may not amuse the hardened MG fans out there, but it is a cautionary tale of sorts.

Skip to - NEXT - if you are not interested, as that is, for me, the important bit.

Having a technical background, but knowing nothing about MGF's, I thought I had covered the basics.
I must admit to not really wanting the car so perhaps was not as thorough as I might have been.
The condition was excellent, minor overspray, but the wings had been removed before spraying, allignment looked good, altogether a fine looking motor for 12 years old. 50,000 miles, nice firm suspension, so good shocks?
So I bid less than the estimate, thinking, keep the wife happy, I won't get it anyway.
Oops. - firm suspension - you guessed - I bounced off out of the carpark. Dental visit next day etc..

NEXT -

I have had it fitted with Suplex suspension from B&G.
I got Kerriges to do the work as I am new to MG's, but I am left with a query.
As your previous correspondent mentioned, B&G supply replacement shock absorbers with the Suplex kit. So I had them replaced as well.

The bottom bushes in all four shock absorbers drifted off until they hit the large retaining washers, resulting in an anouying clunk on potholed roads.
I took them off - realigned the bushes - then looked at where the natural resting place for the bottom of the shock was, and added a 10mm spacer.
They have drifted off again, but twice as fast.
What else should I try.
Have I just got a duff set of shock absorbers?
Other shocks that I am used too have hard rubber bushes in them, so I haver nrver experienced this drift before.
Am I too understand from this forum that I am in the minority in biting the bullet and fitting th Suplex system.
What can anyone tell me before I return the shocks to B&G for a refund.
Any help would be most appreciated.

Regards Edward

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Keith Williams
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Re: Newby from Ely, Cambridgeshire

Post by Keith Williams » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:10 pm

Post moved to the Technical area where you should have more chance of a reply for your question.
1998 MGF VVC, 2001 Trophy 160 & 2013 MG6 GT TSE

Bandit
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Re: Newby from Ely, Cambridgeshire

Post by Bandit » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:40 am

I'm not familiar with the shocks supplied with the Suplex kit, but as a general rule the bottom bush of any shock absorber shouldn't come out in use, so it does seem they're either faulty, or designed for a different type of mounting - one with a retention either side of the bush that prevents sideways creep, perhaps. Fitting a spacer to align the mounting point with the natural resting place of the bush, is that with the suspension in full droop i.e. wheels off the ground? The angle that shock hangs at when unsecured at the bottom isn't necessarily a reliable indicator as it's governed by the top mounting angle, which is designed to be 'there or thereabouts' in the way it faces the lower mounting point through the full travel of the suspension in bump & rebound.

See what B&G say, you're not the first to have the kit fitted so if you're the first to see this problem then a duff set of shocks may be the full extent of it. I suspect the main difference with the 'matched' shocks is that they're designed to work with coil sprung suspension so will damp in both bump & rebound, whereas the OE shocks only damped noticeably on rebound (the Hydragas system provided most of the damping in bump). Assuming that to be the case, any of the aftermarket shocks will work well with the Suplex springs, Gaz/Spax/Avo all have options, some at very reasonable prices.

Jenever
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Re: Newby from Ely, Cambridgeshire

Post by Jenever » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:08 am

Good Morning
Thank you for that.
I will await an opinion from B&G then.
The shocks that I had fitted the week before I bit the bullet, and went for the Suplex system, may be the answer.
I will check also with the chap that sold them to me.
Thanks again.
Regards Edward

Jenever
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Suplex Suspension.

Post by Jenever » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:25 am

Good morning all.

Further to my last missive, I write with the story so far.
Firstly a big thankyou to Dean Gifford, of B&G.
He has been very helpful, in touch with Suplex, who express surprise at the problem, and has arranged for B&G to change the shocks for me next week. Allbeit at my expense, until the problem is proven.
Hopefully all will be resolved. I will keep you posted.

A second question, as one new to forums (or is it fora) such as this.
Can I change the title to attract answers from others with Suplex suspension?
My original post was a reply to one marked Newbie.

Third Question.
I know there are not a vast number of Suplex kits fitted, but could I ask anyone with one to have a quick look at the bottom bush on their shock absorbers, the front ones are easy to see on full lock, and let me know if they have remained centred on the end fitting. I am intrigued to know I am the only one with this problem.

Thanks again for the help of the forum.
Regards Edward

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Re: Suplex Suspension

Post by Helsbyman » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:08 am

If anyone else is intereasted there is a big how to on the t bar site with pics [another MGF SITE]
Bilstein dampers, 4-2-1 manifold, Head work by Sabre,stainless steel under floor pipes, MGMAINA moded alternator bracket,silicon hoses, Torque tamer, JAYLAD servo bracket, Pro race 1.2 wheels
PETROL BY SHELL :D

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Re: Suplex Suspension

Post by Dingbat » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:10 am

Hi, Edward.

The only other car I know with Suplex suspension fitted belongs to Dave Hughes in Liverpool. He's on this forum as "yo55er" I haven't seen a post from him in a while, so might be worth dropping him a PM.

He was a very enthusiastic proponent of his suplex kit and I'm sure he'd be keen to help if he can.

HTH

Brian
Brian Dingsdale
TF 160 Sprint, VHS Dampers, glass rear window, B&G low coolant alarm, Mud flaps, rear light protectors, Powdercoated and polybushed subframes (Royal Blue). Stainless coolant pipes. Braided brake hoses. Greasable clutch release arm.

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    Rich in Vancouver
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Rich in Vancouver » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:02 pm

    The Suplex kit has only been available for a few months so I expect that we will see a lot of kits
    being installed in the next while.
    One of the regulars on the T-Bar forum is installing a set and I believe is working on a how-to guide.

    D'oh! Just re-read Helmsby's post above. He beat me to it!

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    Rob Bell
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Rob Bell » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:27 am

    I don't have direct experience with these kits yet, but I do know that David is very happy with his (write up in the next edition of FTF!), and Mike has a set fitted to his racing MGF that will be campaigning this season. Neither have had problems with the damper bushes drifting out to the best of my knowledge?

    Jenever
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Jenever » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:18 pm

    Good morning gentlemen.
    The last bit of my tale of the Suplex Suspension.
    On Thursday I went over to Brown & Gammon for them to look at my Suplex suspension.
    What a superb operation they have there. Not to mention an extraordinary range of customers vehicles in various stages of repair and restoration. I don’t know if you have ever toured Spain, say in an MG or similar, and stayed at Paradors, (www.parador.es – if you are interested), but there is that same air of enthusiasm. You are not treated so much as a customer, but as a fellow enthusiast.
    Whilst looking at the problem, and given that it is a good 90 minute drive for me to get there, I was persuaded to have the B&G nylon conical bushes fitted. They are a B&G solution for aging rubber bushes, and for want of 30 quid I am at least rid of the wandering bush problem.
    As to the occasional clunk on particularly rough stretches of road, I am persuaded that that it a feature of the German Springs. I would be interested in any comment and reaction from other Suplex users.
    It remains just for me to thank Geoff and Dean of B&G for a very informative and interesting discussion of MG’s, and MGF problems in particular, and for sorting out the little car.
    Regards Edward

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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Dieter K » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:29 pm

    Jenever wrote:...As to the occasional clunk on particularly rough stretches of road, I am persuaded that that it a feature of the German Springs.
    Dooh, so it's still a rubbish design ?
    Btw. I'm quite sure that German Springs are fine as long as the "design in" is right :thumbsu: :thumbsu:
    I know million of cars here with springs that don't have this clunk :sf: :lol:
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    Rob Bell
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Rob Bell » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:31 pm

    Don't worry Dieter. German springs, British design :lol: :lol: :lol:

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    Rich in Vancouver
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Rich in Vancouver » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:41 am

    So, is the clunk the sound of the Suplex units moving around in the Hydragas hoiusing on the subframe?
    It could be that if the spring was compressed, then released rapidly it would allow some movement.
    Would a rubber wrap on the suplex housing help keep it in position and prevent the clunk?

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    Rob Bell
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Rob Bell » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:20 am

    A rubber material probably wouldn't last that long if the Suplex units move around that much Rich, either being hammered flat or wearing away. But I think this approach may be helpful in identifying where the noise was coming from: movement of the Suplex unit in the subframe mount, or elsewhere in the suspension system. :)

    Jenever
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Jenever » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:27 am

    Enschuldigungen Sie mich!
    No offence intended.
    I know nothing of the history of the Suplex design, so I was just reading the label on the box.
    Another case of the Winnie the Pooh situation when he said "What seemed a good idea when it was inside your head, isn't always such a good idea when it is outside your head, and has other people looking at it."
    Regards Edward

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    Rob Bell
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Rob Bell » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:46 am

    Don't worry Edward, I am sure that Dieter didn't take it to heart! And you're right, the label clearly states "SUPLEX GERMANY"! I think this was a carry over from the origins of the company - which originated in the UK, before a management buy out and the establishment of an independent company in Germany in the 1990s. Since then, the company has expanded, and now has offices in Shefield!

    Dan White, MD of Suplex (UK) is the chap responsible for the design of the units - and is also the one who'd be interested in your feedback on the knock. It may be that the ride height adjustment is not quite there - or that the suspension is worn - ball joints and bushes all in good condition?

    Jenever
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Jenever » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:18 am

    Thanks for that.
    I too would be interested to hear any other ideas for the clunking sound.
    Perhaps just resonance of the units as the suspension hits the end stops.
    Both Kerridges and B&G have assured me that the other bushes, wishbone linkages, etc, are in good condition.
    It appears that the shock absorber bushes wandering had nothing to do with it either.
    I will surely keep you posted if I discover anything else, and further feedback from members here will be much appreciated.
    Yours Edward

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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Dieter K » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:27 am

    Edward, no worries, see the double smilies :thumbsu:
    would be interesting to verify whether the clunk happens when the spring is fully compressed or the other way around depressed.
    So hitting the lower or the upper stop ?
    Lower stop impact should be easy to identify, cause the units cover lower edge will hit the upper arm and leave some clear mark on the upper wishbone paint.

    Please keep us posted :)
    Best
    Dieter
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    Rich in Vancouver
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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Rich in Vancouver » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:28 pm

    Alright you Euros!
    I can order a beer and schnitzel in German, and can ask for directions to the train station but what does "Enschuldgungen sie mich!" mean?
    Bing translator tells me it means "Enschuldgungen You Me" which isn't much help! :roll:

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    Re: Suplex Suspension

    Post by Dieter K » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:18 pm

    Bing translator isn't typo-resistant. :thumbsd:
    Try with ... entschuldige mich or ich entschuldige mich :kiss: >> excuse me :kiss:

    Entschuldigung angenommen, kein Grund sich zu entschuldigen.
    :thumbsu:
    pas de problème
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