Engine bay cooling ideas

[diesel destroyer]

Given that the engine bay design is flawed.. and air flow is minimal..

What have others tried?

More ducting?

Extract fans?

Bigger vents?

[Geoff.F]

What makes you consider that the bay cooling is "Flawed" ??? Do you have a high oil or coolant problem.
Under normal driving conditions there is more than adequate cooling flow however when driving in congested traffic it is normal for the cooling fan to come "On" or when turning off the engine then being static, heat soke from the engine & exhaust will cause the fan to run for a timed cycle.
The only time that I experience hot oil is when climbing at low speed and high power in the Swiss Alps. The Steptronic gearbox generates heat and has it's own oil cooler which together with the AC cooler, leaves no space for an engine oil cooler.
Some Track cars prepared by a local Motorsports outfit had the engine bay Fan switched permanently On. I have a circuit with a switch at the back of the parcel shelf so that the fan is operated by the HRW switch. This circuit requires to return to normal operation when the engine is off (low oil pressure switch open) to retain the timed shut down cycle. This has been effective.
Geoff F.

[diesel destroyer]

Ok.. in my humble opinion the design is flawed...

But most will rightly tell you.. I know jack all

I doubt oil temp will be an issue for me.. as I will be running a laminova oil cooler..

The the heat generated on a hot sunny track day.. and the car sat staionary.. results in the heat not exiting the engine bay very well..

Even with the poor standard fan running.. Yes it sucks air in.. but isnt that great in dropping the engine bay temps..

The cooler the engine bay.. the better the car performs..

Under car scoops, better side intake fan (higher CFM) bigger boot lid vents, exit fans to suck.. would all work in shifting the temp downwards..

So what have people done?

Allan

[adrianclifford]

Allan, as far as I'm aware (and I've looked at huge numbers of F's and TF's over the years to see what others have done) I've seen nobody who has tackled the engine bay heat issue.

As for the engine air cooling an external air intake from the n/s vent with the filter set in a carbon housing is sufficient and I have taken the car hard round several tracks in the UK and Europe and in pretty high temperatures, we have pushed it as hard as we could round European roads in a similar heat many times, one of these event (the departed 1000 bends in Germany) lasted for two days....never a problem.

We have climbed all of the high Alpine, Dolomite and Pyrennean passes, still never a problem.

However don't let me distract you from your quest, good luck to you but maybe it's not as much of a problem in real terms as you may think.

[mgtfnut]

Got to agree with all the above comments - it's not "ideal" with the engine stuck into a hole with no real air flow over the exterior of the block.
However, that's what a cooling system is for, and MG-R tested it in hot climates extensively before production.
Most "problems" only occur with malfunctioning bits/lack of sevicing etc.
Yes, there might be fractionally more "cooling" if it were a FWD vehicle, but this effect is marginal compared with an effective fluid cooling system.
I've certainly never had a cooling problem from blasting round Hockenheim on a hot day, to idling in a mid summer traffic jam on the M6 after blasting down it for a couple of hours.

I know what you mean though - good luck

[adrianclifford]

The MGF hot weather testing was done in Death Valley, California at over 120 degrees. I know the test engineer and those cars were pushed hard, by the way, the TF was tested in the desert in Australia as the highway is unrestricted, so maximum speeds were guaranteed (and I have the pictures to prove it) .

[diesel destroyer]

My car isnt a standard car...

Im just trying to ensure I can control the engine bay temps... rather than cooking my lovely new engine.. Over worrying? Maybe... Just want to be able to cool the engine bay with the car staionary

Ive made some under car scoops that I hope will 'scoop' air up into the engine bay (whilst moving only).. Ive also modded my boot lid to allow more air flow through it (vent 50% bigger)..

Ive fitted my 100mm air intake to the passenger wing.. so have lost that as a source of air..

I also plan to fit a high CFM fan to the drivers side instead of the factory item.. have fitted the scoops made by XR3TF (Koos) and may fit extract fans to the boot lid to aid in pulling the warm air out..

[adrianclifford]

Yep, you're right it's not a normal car, I knew that from a previous post so I was aware in my words. But the fact that it's a largely untouched issue is still valid so good luck to you in your attempts, with your care and attention to detail I'm sure the car will be better for it.

[diesel destroyer]

Yep, you're right it's not a normal car, I knew that from a previous post so I was aware in my words. But the fact that it's a largely untouched issue is still valid so good luck to you in your attempts, with your care and attention to detail I'm sure the car will be better for it.

Cheers...

Just over worrying that my sizeable investment in the engine wont get cooked on a hard summers track day.

The rad has twin fans (will probably have a full alloy race rad too) and oil will go through a laminova oil cooler..

So its just forced engine bay cooling to sort..

[mgfsoldier]

So far i see ways of getting fresh air in. Im just thinking out loud as a unqualified observer but as hot air rises would it be effective to insert two small fans at the engine boot grills to aid extracting hot air or possibly fitting Mr2 vielside style air intake scoops (only POSSIBLE with a hard top i would think)

[mgtfnut]

Not trying to denigrate what you have done, or about to do , but ambient air temperature in the engine bay is not going to "kill" an engine - provided the cooling systems work properly.
You certainly seem to be able to cover the cooling with you have outlined - just think about tank engines deep inside an armoured hull

[mgfsoldier]

Tank engines have massive fans that extract the air from the rear and draw air over the engine and massive radiators to keep the engine cool. Thinking on that route though if you don't need the boot you could fit a tunnel and fans through the boot aswell to draw air across the engine.

[diesel destroyer]

Not trying to denigrate what you have done, or about to do , but ambient air temperature in the engine bay is not going to "kill" an engine - provided the cooling systems work properly.
You certainly seem to be able to cover the cooling with you have outlined - just think about tank engines deep inside an armoured hull

An engine that has been working very hard will make the engine bay temp higher than ambient air temp..

I'm looking at having the 4-2-1 ceramic coated.. This will help with engine bay temps too..

I'm of the school of 'every little helps' lol

I've seen a pic of an F or TF with under car scoops.. Made from aluminium if I remember correctly.. Plus the 200 HD (or whatever it's called) had a modded boot lid didnt it?

[Krazyken]

I ran a mid engined Marlin kit car with a modified VVC engine for many years. Like you I considered extra cooling, NACA ducts and all manner of ventilation. At the end of the day none of it was necessary as 2 full hot days at Spa in August and a very hot 6 hour endurance at Mallory Park prooved. The car ran faultlessly, never missed a bit and never showed the slightest indication of overheating.

I would suggest that the most important consideration is your engine oil and cooling system. I always used Morris X-RPM Competition Fully Synthetic Oil and made sure that the cooling system was faultless with a PRT Thermostat on the other side of the engine and the the coolant channged every year.

Hope that helps.

[talkingcars]

Thinking laterally - how about an electric coolant pump to keep OAT cicrulating after the engine stops. This will help the engine cool steadly rather than getting a chill.

Something like the offerings from PAW will do the job.

[Martin_Bmth]

Im sure I saw something on the forum to say about an extra set of vents on the outer edges of the boot, that would double the venting. I cant remember if it was a mock up or someone had tried... guess you'd have to make sure your electrics are covered to protect from rain... but with all the mods your doing putting the mems on the other side of the boot wall (in the boot) wouldn't be a problem. It would look something like this:

extra vents in boot - mock up

I know you've already got extra vents but Im a fan of vents, the more the merrier
liking your ambition diesel destroyer and your approach. Looking forward to seeing the beast complete.

[Charless]

I am happy with the way it was designed and don't think it is necessary; but if you are worried, how about changing the direction of the engine bay extract fan? People put matched scoops like yours on the right hand side to encourage air in, but when running, the engine bay cooler fan then tries to push it out. The standard scoops have been widely proven to make almost no difference beyond looking good, but the scoop seems to be trying do exactly the opposite of the extract fan. It is marginal but at stationary/slow speeds if the extract fan came on, at least it would be working with the natural airflow, not against, and might encourage naturally heated airflow to rise upwards out of the boot vents.

[diesel destroyer]

Thinking laterally - how about an electric coolant pump to keep OAT cicrulating after the engine stops. This will help the engine cool steadly rather than getting a chill.

Something like the offerings from PAW will do the job.

I run a Davies Craig electric pump on my challenge truck.. To enure the coolant runs ok when the truck is moving along at just tick over... Its certainly an option worth considering...

[diesel destroyer]

I am happy with the way it was designed and don't think it is necessary; but if you are worried, how about changing the direction of the engine bay extract fan? People put matched scoops like yours on the right hand side to encourage air in, but when running, the engine bay cooler fan then tries to push it out. The standard scoops have been widely proven to make almost no difference beyond looking good, but the scoop seems to be trying do exactly the opposite of the extract fan. It is marginal but at stationary/slow speeds if the extract fan came on, at least it would be working with the natural airflow, not against, and might encourage naturally heated airflow to rise upwards out of the boot vents.

Er the standard fan 'pulls' not 'pushes'. At least mine does... And it's not that good.. Mine will get replaced with a high CFM curved blade fan

[nigelandjo]

I'm sure some time ago someone was thinking of fitting a couple of hard disk cooling fans into the boot vents to draw air upwards from the engine bay.