135 TF cams in an F

[Bruce]

As a next mod I am considering other cams for my 1998 MGF MPI,
Sander (NL) suggests a set of 135 TF cams, but as I understand it they need to be converted to fit in an F.
Has anyone here done this conversion or know what conversion is needed for them to fit?

[Steve White]

I believe the conversion involves fitting a distibutor drive bush the end of TF135 cams. This is needed as TF's used wasted spark igniton and so dont have a distributor. So to fit the cams to an MPi with a distributor, the drive bush is required.
Rob Bell also recomends using uprated valve springs in conjuction with the TF135 cams in order to ensure the desired valve lift is acheived.

See Rob's site for more info and part numbers: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/en ... ptions.htm

[Bruce]

I believe the conversion involves fitting a distibutor drive bush the end of TF135 cams.

Thanks for your quick reply, this is what I am trying to understand, is this something you can fit yourself with a hammer? or special tool? does it need welding or is it a specialist job?

[ErikB]

I would include the option to switch to a MEMS3 system, although this requires some work as well, but eliminates the distributor work, but keeps the option open for a re-program.

[Rick]

I went for a tf 135 head complete on my MPI paid C.400 pounds for it but was new not recon and was complete with cams. It has to have the tensioner re drilled into head as mounts are different!!

[Bruce]

Thanks Rick,

Going for the whole head is an option, but I just bought a set of cams on Ebay..
(did you get a noticable gain in performance?)

Has anyone done this conversion before me? and maybe have some photo's?

O and what about timing, do these cams just drop in place or do they need timing like shown on Rob's website?

And help is welcome..

[Rick]

There was a noticeable inc in performance yes!!



Good luck!!

[Bruce]

I've done some reading on Rob and Dieters website and understand I will need an additional part NJJ10001 (Bush-drive spindle distributor) I've checked with my local MG garage but they don't have this in stock..

Is this the only part I need or do I also need an additional rotor?
Can anyone advise on how there parts should be connected? I can't find and information on this.

Any help is welcome..

[Rob Bell]

Bruce and I have been chatting about this over email, but this is a straightforward job

In fact, when I did this, I got a TF 135 head ported, had it drilled for the manual tensioner system and the distributer spigot tapped into the end of the inlet cam (I bought mine from X-Part - part number as previously mentioned).

Installing the cams into a MPi head is very easy, and yes, you'll need the spigot. It needs to be correctly orientated, but not to a high level of accuracy. There's more on this on Dave Andrew's tuning website Once this is done, everything is plug and play (plus immediate access to close to 135 bhp - quite an easy +15bhp gain that doesn't involve being fleeced on fleabay for a 15 pence resistor... )

[Broon]

I have been copnsiderign this recently. I already have MEMs3 and wated spark on my late model MGF, so is it just a case of dropping the new cams in and thats it?

[Rob Bell]

Pretty much, yes, as the 135 cams also have the reluctor ring to enable the MEMS3 style of cam timing sensing

It'll be plug and play for you Broon and I doubt that fuelling will be an issue, but as MEMS3 cars use smaller injectors than those that are MEMS1.9/2J equipped it may be worth looking out for - although these smaller injectors are still used on the 160PS variants...

[Broon]

Pretty much, yes, as the 135 cams also have the reluctor ring to enable the MEMS3 style of cam timing sensing

It'll be plug and play for you Broon and I doubt that fuelling will be an issue, but as MEMS3 cars use smaller injectors than those that are MEMS1.9/2J equipped it may be worth looking out for - although these smaller injectors are still used on the 160PS variants...

Thanks Rob.

I also asked this on the org, thats how I found this thread, but someone left these comments

If you swap your cams for new or reground ones then you must fit new lifters. If you don't do this then you will destroy the cams within about 2 minutes of first start up. Piper sell hydraulic lifters (Code: FOLKH) at £228 a set.

You'll need some specialist cam lube for the cam/lifters and when you start the engine for the first time you'll need to set it to around 2500-3000 rpm and run it like that for 15-20 minutes to get the cams to bed in properly. If you don't do this you are looking at early cam failure.

Personally I don't like hydraulic lifters and would fit solid ones and then shim to get the correct valve clearances. Piper also do these (Code: FOLKM) at £368 a set.

If you have a distributor on the car then you will have to fit a distributor drive to the cam - £20

I would fit new valve springs as well, budget on £100 - £150.

You will also need to check there is no coil binding on full lift.


It is highly unlikely that the timing marks on the pulleys will be correct for the new cams. In which case you will need a pair of offset dowel pulleys, or, better still, vernier pulleys. Piper sell these (Code: PULDK) at £174 a pair.

Then you'll need access to a timing disc as well as some dial guages to accurately set TDC on No1 piston and to set the correct valve lift on each cam.

Doesnt seem so easy all of a sudden.

[Rob Bell]

Alot of that advice is sound - particularly for engines that are of an older generation. However, you can certainly reuse the existing hydraulic followers (tappets) so long as you linish them, and cam lube is not actually necessary in K engines, as the build up of oil pressure is extremely quick. I recall asking these questions myself before undertaking the job - and these were the answers I got back. I haven't put my money were my mouth is though - I ended up using a complete 135 head - albeit nicely ported by our good friend, Dave Andrews...

Oh, and the question regarding valve springs - there is a strong argument voiced from a former K development engineer that the standard MPi valve springs are inadequate for the 135 cam. However in other quarters, it is pointed out that higher lift Piper cams are used with standard valve springs with no reported ill-effect.

At the end of the day, you pay your money and you make your choice. There is certainly no harm in replacing the tappets and springs. I'd almost certainly would have replaced my engine's tappets as one was already tapping rather annoyingly. But this is still a rather neat 'standard' +15 bhp upgrade that needn't cost too much if you're up to doing a lot of the work yourself...

[Broon]

you can certainly reuse the existing hydraulic followers (tappets) so long as you linish them,

Cheers Rob.

I am hoping thats a typo of sorts, as I ahve no idea what linishing means Having just done a HGF and some valve work myself, I know its easy enough to replace lifters etc. but springs are a different story. I will keep this mod high up on my today list for this year.

What about timing. Would I really need verniers etc. I was hoping the 2 o'clock and 7 o'clock systemw ould still be OK?

By the way, its not that I dont believe the poster of those comments. She does have a heavily modded K engine that can do sub 15secs at the Pod after all

[Rob Bell]

i am not saying she's wrong either In fact, what she's saying is largely 'best practice' - but largely unnecessary. I would have a chat with David Andrews, Mike Satur, or indeed anyone who changes cams frequently (you could get advice from Piper or Kent cams for example too) for more advice on this - but polishing the caps of the tappets should be sufficient to remove the wear marks left by the cam lobes - and if not, then the tappet will need replacing. Wherein replacing one tappet makes not a great deal of sense, and you might as well replace all 16 (they're available cheaply off eBay new) - and ideally, you'd use the slightly uprated VVC tappets.

HTH

[Rob Bell]

PS - linishing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linish

[Broon]

PS - linishing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linish

Ha ha, Ive just come to terms with "lapping" after having to do some valves, now another one gets added to my "knowlwdge"

OK, will chat with insurance co first, then if OK, will maybe get in touch with Dave Andrews. 15bhp you say, add to 52mm TB, Xpower back box, fully enclosed K+N, then 15 , maybe 20?

[Rob Bell]

I got +27 bhp (that's on the Emerald rollers) with 135 cams (standard timing pulleys and timing), enclosed K&N, 52mm throttle body, de-burred standard plastic inlet manifold, a Dave Andrews "Quick and Dirty" cylinder head port (about 400 notes), 4-2-1 exhaust manifold and a Mike Satur Daytona back box. And the car runs like standard. Well like standard but with a useful gain in power and a real thirst for the red line... And it still does 32-36mpg in commuter traffic

[Michael N.]

Hi,
did anyone use 2 VVC Exhaust camshafts instead of TF135 camshafts?. I read this on Rob`s Site that the VVC Exhaust camshafts are similar to the TF135 cams. I`m thinking about how to fit the Bush-Drive Spindle to the cam, because the VVC Exhaust Cam did not have the hole for the bush. I think the hole must be enlarged on a lathe
Would be interesting to hear if anybody have done this.

[Rob Bell]

I am still not sure if anyone actually has or not Michael - I've seen plenty of reference to it - and I think that it may even have been done, but I've not had any direct feedback I am afraid.

It may be the ZR guys have done it - I think that this is the area where there's been most interest