The difference between MGF and MGF Trophy Hydragas spheres

[Rob Bell]

The above image provides a sneak preview - yes, I have also removed the lower "sphere" too...

I have not attempted to remove the rubber membranes at this stage - it's been done before by others, but you get an impression of the manufacturing processes - the rubber membranes appear bonded to the assembly, and the flanges then retained by the other "half" of the sphere when massive machines then make the return flanges of the 2mm steel... this is major stuff: the cost of the manufacturing equipment must be huge. A "remanufactured" sphere, if anyone is crazy enough to undertake this, would have to be made in a completely different way to reduce the tooling costs... but I digress!

Here's the lower part of the internal damper:

It isn't entirely clear to me how this is inserted into the sphere (Dieter, do you know?) - but this is as far as I got with the disassembly. I plan to cut along the welded section to reveal the detail of the internal damper: this I think will be the most revealing part of the investigation!

Incidentally, I have not yet dissected my failed standard unit - but for comparison, here's one that Dieter took apart earlier - first, the upper part of the internal damper assembly:



And the lower section:



So far, everything looks exactly the same...

More soon!

[Rob Bell]

Yay! Finally managed to cut through the sphere to release the damper!

Now just have to do the same with the standard sphere to compare them

[Dell]

Well done Rob as you know I am watching this extreem intrest

[webba]

bet you 10p they are the same

[Rob Bell]

I think your 10p is safe - I'll start cutting the standard one this week...

[webba]

I have never been in a trophy how does the ride compare to a car with lowring pins fitted?

[MaddAussie]

Has any one asked the guys at vhs?

[Rob Bell]

The Trophy feels stiffer suspended webba

Mark, yes, I have asked Andy Kitson, but unfortunately he didn't get back to me on this...

I still haven't managed to cut all the way through the standard 'sphere yet... I won't forget, honest!

[jojo90]

Hi, sorry to resurrect such an old thread... was a conclusion ever reached about the Trophy spheres? Is it possible to do something with a standard sphere to make it into a Trophy compatible one?

[Dell]

Hi, sorry to resurrect such an old thread... was a conclusion ever reached about the Trophy spheres? Is it possible to do something with a standard sphere to make it into a Trophy compatible one?

Just fit the cones from the Trophy spheres into the standard ones job done

[webba]

Are the pins the same?

[Rob Bell]

Thanks for the reminder - I need to chop the standard sphere I have sitting in my garage. Unfortunately it takes forever to cut with a junior hack saw blade - and I don't want to use a cutting disc! Time to build my biceps I guess...

The trophy knuckle pins are apparently the same as standard. The displacer cones are slightly different - but only in length, not in the cone design itself. Therefore it seems that the difference between standard and Trophy appears to be internal - which I should be able to confirm once I have opened up the standard sphere and compare it to the Trophy item shown above.

[talkingcars]

Hi, sorry to resurrect such an old thread... was a conclusion ever reached about the Trophy spheres? Is it possible to do something with a standard sphere to make it into a Trophy compatible one?

Just fit the cones from the Trophy spheres into the standard ones job done

Good luck finding them.

[Dell]

Thanks for the reminder - I need to chop the standard sphere I have sitting in my garage. Unfortunately it takes forever to cut with a junior hack saw blade - and I don't want to use a cutting disc! Time to build my biceps I guess...

The trophy knuckle pins are apparently the same as standard. The displacer cones are slightly different - but only in length, not in the cone design itself. Therefore it seems that the difference between standard and Trophy appears to be internal - which I should be able to confirm once I have opened up the standard sphere and compare it to the Trophy item shown above.

If you compare the profiles of the standard & Trophy cones on Dieters site http://www.mgfcar.de/hydragas/compare.htm you will notice you find that they are not the same & it would appear that the profile profile variation gives the stiffer suspension by displacing more fluid for any given movement. I have fitted a standard sphere with the Trophy cone fitted onto my Trophy & it behaves exactly as it did with the original one fitted. I take no credit for the above information as I stole it all the info from Rob & Dieters websites

[jojo90]

Thanks for the information! I've sent a message off to the MG Specialist I'm visiting tomorrow to get their technical view. My gut tells me that the simplest explanation is often the case. What would be the easiest thing for MG Rover to do? I'd wager modify just one part. If there is another Trophy owner that has done this that does give me confidence. I'll see what the garage is looking for (£ wise) to do the mod Vs me just buying a used Trophy one from eBay.

There is always the possibility that the gas pressure is different between the spheres!

Let's see

[jojo90]

Oh, and sorry for being a bit dense (I've never seen a Sphere before other then peering through the engine bay) will the replacement sphere still be watertight (hyrda) after the transplant operation?

[Rob Bell]

The Trophy sphere has a different part number - but that may only mean a difference in the displacer rather than anything else - and yes, you are absolutely right: MG Rover would have taken the route of least resistance - manufacturing a different displacer cone is a good deal easier than changing the pressings and manufacturing process of the sphere itself

I promise I will take the standard cone apart to confirm or otherwise!!!

[diesel destroyer]

Rob on a side note I've got all the bits and a spare MGF to give Air Ride UK now to hopefully develop and build a bolt on air bag suspension kit.. Which should (hopefully) mean another option for MGF owners with failed spheres

Replace spheres with second hand or reconditioned units
Replace with the dreaded Suplex tat
Replace with the Australian kit
Air bag the car.. With a digital height controller and have the ability to raise the car via a switch for speed humps/slopes etc

Way to early to predict prices but they are confident it can be done

[Rob Bell]

It would be very useful to have another option available Alan. Where would be air pump and accumulator be stored do you think? Is there enough space under the front bonnet?

[diesel destroyer]

I'll be going to Air Ride next month Rob to discuss options..

For my GT build the boot space is a no no... And I want to carry a spare wheel..

But there is some space to link several smaller tanks around the car

Inside the cabin is a no no (little room as it is)

For me personally I have room under the rear diffuser.. over the gearbox in the engine bay.. some room under the bonnet and I have an area up inside the front bumper.. plus room inside the front bumper in front of the wheels..

Its all about being creative with space and thinking outside the box