hand brake adjustment

[Pmill52]

Hi Guys.

Whats the situation with the Hand brake adjustment on M.G.F
I have fitted two new calipers and was wondering how the auto adjustment works.
Do you operate the hand brake a few times until it adjusts? is there any adjustment in the cable?
The calipers came as "factory set" i suspect that this means fit and they auto adjust, any thoughts ??

[Geoff.F]

The sequence for fitting new rear calipers is to instal, seat the pads and bleed and then autoset the handbrake. Do NOT apply the handbrake before seating and bleeding.
Geoff F.

[Pmill52]

Hi.
Pads are in and seated, caliper in in position and bolted in, brakes are bled, so do you now apply handbrake a few times to get it to self adjust??

[Mykel]

As Geoff said, do not use the handbrake lever straight away after fitting the calipers or replacing brake pads. New calipers should indeed come with the pistons fully retracted, upon pad replacement it would be necessary to screw the pistons in with a special tool. This resets the handbrake mechanism inside the calipers.

When everything is fitted, apply the foot brake a couple of times, until the pedal feels firm. Now the handbrake mechanism is adjusted to the new pads which means, the handbrake lever can be operated as usual. Personally, I would still drive a couple of miles, gently braking occasionally to ensure complete seating of the pads.

Should you have operated the lever before using the foot pedal, I’m afraid it’s pads out and piston reset on both calipers again. Then restart the procedure.

[chrisyoung1971]

I have a follow up quesiton on this if anyone can help. Have just changed pads, discs and calipers on both rears and now I cannot get the handbrake to pass MOT. What seems to be happening is the adjustment is uneven between each side, so I cannot get even pressure whe n adjustign and pulling the handbrake. So when I adjust the cable in the interior cubby hole it pulls the gap to about 1-2mm as it is suposed to on the dirvers side caliper but the passenger side stays with no gap. I can open up a gap manually by pushing the handrbrake leve directly on the caplier and when I do that it closes the gap slightly on the driver side. But when I then pull the handbrake and relsseas it goes back to being uneven again. Having read this post I am wondering if I have done somethig odd when installing. So maybe I need to take bpth calpiers off, pads out and wind the piston right in and reseat everything. Should I do this with the handbrake cables unattached (pull the pins out at the rear) or will it not matter. My only other posisble problem is maybe one of the handbrake cables is slightly stretched? Is that possible?

Any advice woud bve gratefully received.

[Reckless Rat]

Make sure the calipers you have fitted are operating correctly. I have recently (last year) replaced both rear calipers and had the same problem. It turned out to be a fault with the ratcheting mechanism inside the nearside caliper which was failing to reset the handbrake cable... I ended up having to send the caliper back for a replacement. Everything else worked correctly.

[chrisyoung1971]

Any more ideas? Checked calipers and they seem to be working fine. Disconnected cable, wond the pistons back in, reset using foot pedal, connected cable back and still can't make it work. Seems a little better. The lever comes up about 3 clicks and feels pretty Nirmal, just does not seem to be transferring enough force to the pads. If have any comments I would say that the lever feels kk d of soft and springy at the top end. Almost like the cables are too elastic, but seems unlikely. Stumped now.

[EllsoJo]

Apologies if you have read the workshop manual, but if not, you should adjust the nut on the compensator, which is under the box in the centre console:


This needs to be tightened (after the brake pedal has been pressed several times to get the self-adjuster to "take-up-slack" at both rear callipers)

I used a 2mm drill as seen below to check gap.


Hope that helps

[chrisyoung1971]

Still no real answer as to why my handbrake does not work. Took it to a local guy I know who specialises in classic MG/Sprite etc and he said "yes, all looks fine and working as it should, the handbrake is just a bit sh*t on theses".

He said he has a local MOT guy who "understands" these cars to he will take it there and hopefully it will pass, holds the car rock solid on steep slope so hopefully OK.

Got me wondering though if I could design a fix. There are two well placed holes, one near the spring tail and then the one that the cable normally fits in that would be perfect to fix a small fabricated plate, good thick steel with some decent 8.8 or 10.6 bolts as it is brakes we are playing about with. Has anyone tried anything like this to increase the lever arm on the mechanism? L2>L2 in photo.

Patent pending .

[Reckless Rat]

Many handbrakes on cars with all round disc brakes are not much cop. It's not just the MGF/TF that suffers from the problem. Many Vauxhall Vectra owners suffered from their car running away when they've parked it (without putting it in gear) as the discs have cooled and contracted.

Mercedes Benz overcame the problem a while back, opting for a pedal operated parking brake, which imparted much higher levels of leverage, allied to a system which incorporated a drum brake acting on the rear disc, and separate from the rear calipers. It works like a transmission brake, and I can testify that when it's ON, it's ON. Here's a pic of one of the rear discs on my E Class W210 to show you the "inner" drum brake for parking:



Bit out of focus but this is the small drum brake that fits inside the disc:



Just for information, at last "Contrôle Technique" (French MOT) my 97 'F' showed 22% on the handbrake, and that was with new calipers and pads. The fail limit is 18%. Don't expect too much. (and always leave it in gear!)

Good Luck.

[mgtfnut]

I had the same problem years ago. Tried all of the advise above, which is quiet correct as per workshop manual. Further head scratching showed a difference in operation of the actuating lever on the caliper with the big spring.One moved fairly easily, the other was stiff and made funny noises.

Dismantling the caliper completely showed there was a needle roller bearing with a hole in the outer race for a short pushrod to move the adjuster assy upwards to push the piston hard on. As there was no way I could get the needle roller bearing out/ replace, I squirted with brake cleaner and forcibly worked the lever to and fro with grinding noises until there was free rotation and the rust/debris washed out I did this both sides and lubed the roller bearing with red rubber grease and stuffed more into the space around the seal before rebuilding the calipers. I then cut some circular felt seals soaked in WD40 and fitted everything back together - bingo all worked extremely well, and has been ever since.

I was loath to spend the money at the time on new OEM calipers, but an annual pre MoT squirt of WD40 from outside on the "seals" and wiggle about has given a very solid handbrake operation ever since. Rebuilt calipers often have have hard nylon bushes to replace the needle bearings, which are obviously not as good as a roller bearing - even if a bit battle scarred.

[mowog73]

Drum brakes make so much more sense at the back of a car; they provide braking force and the parking brake mechanism is simple and effective.

The parking brake mechanism had seized on my F, so I rebuilt the calipers and now they work great.

[talkingcars]

The MG ZT has drum inside disk rear brakes.

[RobboMC]

Drum brakes make so much more sense at the back of a car; they provide braking force and the parking brake mechanism is simple and effective.

When I'm arriving at the end of a straight on a track day around 180 km/h I'll have disc brakes thank you.

As usual ask 2 people the same question and you'll get 3 different answers. Opinion will always be divided.

My old Toyota Prado ( 2001 model ? ) has the drum inside the disc solution. Makes changing the pads VERY easy but increases unsprung weight a bit.
An old Ford I had years ago went to the metal on the internal drum where some turkey before me was using the parking brake
for normal braking. We never fixed it as it kept working OK as a parking brake.

As Reckless writes, don't expect too much from the F and keep the braking system properly maintained.

[EllsoJo]

Although my 2002 TF passed it's MOT a couple of days ago without advisories , the tester made a couple of comments which are relevant to this "Handbrake Adjustment" Thread:
1. When fitting the new braided (Goodridge) REAR hoses I supplied, they noticed that the handbrake was binding. I have no doubt they were telling the truth, but I am also sure the handbrake was NOT binding on the day before the MOT and I think I know WHY:

I had decided to do as close as I could to an "Italian Tune-Up" on the way to the MOT, given that many people have commented that emissions can fail Fs & TFs because Catalysts were not hot enough. I therefore rode the brakes most of the way along the dual carriageway/Honiton bypass, using left-foot braking to hold speed down to 70 (honest officer) with nearly full throttle. This certainly got the rear brakes hotter than ever before, resulting in at least one, maybe both SELF ADJUSTERES ]FINALLY SELF ADJUSTING. I have suspected since buying the car, that the self-adjusters were inoperative.
The point of all the above that if you too suspect that your handbrake is NOT doing it's self adjusting job properly, it is worth trying to get the rear brakes as hot as possible, then use the footbrake as firmly as you can. Self-adjusters MIGHT wake up and smell the coffee, or possibly the smell of over-temperature rear brakes!!

MOT Testers second comment:
They were NOT prepared to fit the Goodridge FRONT braided hoses, on the grounds that they do NOT incorporate any anti-rotation fitting. The OEM hoses do:

OEM Front Hose

The bit I have circled in red fits between two "ears" on the calliper:

Old OEM Hose on Girling Calliper

The Goodrich Front Hose has nothing protruding ahead of the Banjo, so has nothing to prevent the banjo from being wound around as the through-nut is tightened. I think the "anti-rotation" feature on the OEM hose is also useful (vital?) to prevent tension in the hose conspiring with suspension movement to wiggle the banjo, allowing/causing the through-bolt to loosen. It was this potential for self-loosening which seemed to be the main concern of my local garage.

I am in email communication with Rimmers, who sold me the Goodrich hoses, advising them of my/my garage's concerns. They have quickly advised that they are in discussion with Goodrige. I will post again if I or they arrive at a solution.

[mgb281]

I think I have found a replacement rear calliper option, it's from the MX5 NC (2005 onwards) same calliper bore, same orientation of the handbrake mechanism. Not only that the handbrake cable bracket is perfect fit for the cable and to reach the lever on the calliper itself. Apart from making an adapter to attach the calliper the only other difference is that the MX5 has a hook type cable end rather than a clevis, the TF clevis fits on the MX5 hook and I don't think it would detach itself but a very easy fix to convert to a clevis pin type lever. If I hadn't already bought new TF callipers then I would have fitted them

[mgb281]

I have added photos of the MX5 callipers for anyone interested.