non starter MGF

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itsonlyme54
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non starter MGF

Post by itsonlyme54 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:37 pm

I have recently bought a R reg 1.8 solid cam F, 90,000 miles and very tidy, the previous owner could not get this car to run, he told me that it had spark and fuel but would not run.
Work to date, checked spark, all cylinders have spark, all cylinders have fuel, fuel gauge was showing less than a quarter of a tank, suspected gauge may not be working so two gallons of fuel added, no improvement.

Ecu set replaced, no improvement.
Plugs replaced, no improvement.
Coil replaced no improvement.
Distributor cap and rotor replaced no improvement.

Charles has read engines diagnostics and no fault codes, we tried to start car with crank sensor disconnected and that did not show any codes, the engine will fire and then stop, if you continue to crank the engine is does fire intermittently but will not start, compression test gave 150-160 on all cylinders, cam belt is intact and timing has been found to be correct.

Previous owner had said that a mechanic had suggested engine loom ?Charles and I have spent hours trying to solve this problem, its such a tidy car that I really do not want to break this, it seems as though the immobilizer is cutting in, is there a way to disable the immobilize and the try to start the car ?

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by nigelandjo » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:20 pm

Sounds just like a problem I had recently. Car would run for about a second then died. Had to get it recovered to a garage with a T4. The immobiliser had lost the synchronisation with the fob whilst the car was without a battery for a few days. Once it was resynced on the T4 started and ran first time.
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Re: non starter MGF

Post by talkingcars » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:34 pm

It does sound like an immobiliser problem.
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Re: non starter MGF

Post by Geoff.F » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:08 am

The Immobiliser can be turned "Off" using the Emergency Key Access Code. Search "EKA"
Geoff F.

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by Charless » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:43 am

We haven't tried the EKA admittedly - key ops are pretty random and fobs appear to do it - but anything is worth a try. We can turn the immobilisers on and off with fobs and have used two different sets of matched ECU+5AS+fobs, the symptoms remain the same. The 5AS EMS code is correctly matched according to pscan. It is strange that neither ECU is reporting any fault codes so I am leaning towards ECU grounding/loom.
Any other suggestions before we are back at it?

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by Geoff.F » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:31 am

'''I do believe that all MGF/TF drivers should have their EKA and know how to use it.
Our first need of it was just a few days after buying the car in 2000 from Emil Frey in Basel. After parking to visit a restaurant, the Fob unlocked the doors however the engine would not crank. The EKA failed to work however we were outside a Taxi Office. We asked the young lady if she would not mind switching their radio Off for a minute. Bingo, the engine started straight away and we did not need a Taxi.
I took the car back to the Dealer to have the EKA sorted. They showed me how to use the supplied EKA with a smug grin on his face. Failed. It was one of the cars supplied with the wrong EKA.
Checking the EKA annually and before any European Trips is now part of the Preventative Maintenance Programme.
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Re: non starter MGF

Post by jonaf » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:09 pm

Did you check the fuel pressure?

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by itsonlyme54 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:52 pm

Charles and I had another look this morning, same problem, tried the EKA route with no success, changed the crank sensor which made no difference, the car was getting very close to being broken.

We carried on fiddling and during a conversation Charles mentioned that he could hear a hissing sound, when the engine stopped there was a sound that sounded like compression leaking but with such good compression figures we discounted that. The odd thing that was happening was that cylinders one and four were firing and two and three appeared not to be looking at the plugs and feeling heat of the manifold.

After almost two days of fiddling with this car we were almost fed up with it, we decided to disconnect the downpipe from the cat, after doing that we tried the car again, it started and ran well, we removed the cat and found the problem, it was blocked, new cat fitted and the car runs very well, we both had a drive and now happy faces again, Charles is a great enthusiast and his help and knowledge has been greatly appreciated this weekend, Charles, on to the next one I think.

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by Charless » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:03 pm

The back box side of the cat looked immaculate. The downpipe end looked like this (apols for phone photo quality):
IMG_20161211_131727.jpg
Internal matrix soaked in the oil and water left in the downpipe after the head gasket was replaced a couple of years back. At some stage thereafter it must have broken up internally and was making a pretty effective seal as soon as the engine fired, back pressuring the engine and preventing normal gas flow and combustion. Good teamwork!

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by talkingcars » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:05 pm

Pleased it's sorted.

We only got the EKA with one of the many (10 IIRC) 5AS cars we've had, the www.pscan.eu extracts it.
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Re: non starter MGF

Post by itsonlyme54 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:27 pm

To bring this thread up to date, I submitted the car for Mot and it failed on emissions, Lambda readings ok but Co readings not, the car had an after market Cat which I replaced with a genuine item, it failed again but was slightly better, I drove the car hard for around 50 miles, back to Mot and it was worse.

The car on startup was giving a puff of smoke and the oil level had dropped after my run, I thought maybe the head gasket was on the way out although it was not getting hot or using water, I replaced the head gasket and changed the oil, I also changed the rear box to the exhaust and the plugs, back to Mot and only slightly better but still not even close to emissions.

Something that was tried seemed odd, when the engine is tested from cold the emissions are almost passable, as it gets up to temperature it gets worse, I am now thinking that I need to replace the engine ?

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by talkingcars » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:53 am

What does a code reading show?
What about live data for the coolant temp?
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Re: non starter MGF

Post by itsonlyme54 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:04 pm

talkingcars wrote:What does a code reading show?
What about live data for the coolant temp?
no fault codes showing, not sure what you are asking me for ?, What about live data for the coolant temp, really appreciate your reply though

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by daz » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:25 pm

itsonlyme54 wrote:
talkingcars wrote:What does a code reading show?
What about live data for the coolant temp?
no fault codes showing, not sure what you are asking me for ?, What about live data for the coolant temp, really appreciate your reply though
I think talkingcars is hinting towards a sensor problem, hence asking if there are any fault codes or if the live coolant reading is accurate. From memory there's a sensor for the gauge & another for the ecu, if the ecu sensor is faulty it may be "choking" the engine once up to temp & throwing the emissions out.

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by itsonlyme54 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:33 am

daz wrote:
itsonlyme54 wrote:
talkingcars wrote:What does a code reading show?
What about live data for the coolant temp?
no fault codes showing, not sure what you are asking me for ?, What about live data for the coolant temp, really appreciate your reply though
I think talkingcars is hinting towards a sensor problem, hence asking if there are any fault codes or if the live coolant reading is accurate. From memory there's a sensor for the gauge & another for the ecu, if the ecu sensor is faulty it may be "choking" the engine once up to temp & throwing the emissions out.

a new coolant temperature sensor has been fitted

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by talkingcars » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:22 am

Which coolant temp sensor?
There are two.
And is it reading correctly.
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Re: non starter MGF

Post by itsonlyme54 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:24 pm

the temperature gauge is reading correctly, I replaced the brown sensor that relates to the ecu

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by talkingcars » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:46 pm

The dash gauge uses the blue sensor as I'm sure you already know.

Having replaced the brown sensor, as you have, but having symptoms that can point towards the ECU getting incorrect information from the brown sensor so I would plug a OBD reader into the cars diagnostic socket and see what reading the brown sensor is giving the ECU.
(obviously it'd have to be a T4 or www.pscan.eu or similar as the car will have a MEMS 1.9 ECU).
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Re: non starter MGF

Post by Charless » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:45 pm

It was read with pscan and showed no faults. In live data everything looked as expected - realistic temp reported, so didn't record them. The smoke is right from startup and thereafter; at first it looked like stuff spilled down the exhaust manifold burning off (after some unknown garage did the HG with new plastic dowels!), but has persisted. It doesn't smell of excess fuelling - which can easily be checked by removing the brown sensor's loom connector - been there. The strange thing is the engine runs and pulls really nicely from the word go, but smokes. Maybe a good head transplant will rule out valve guide damage as the source of oil burning. Maybe it is scraper ring(s) as the good compression in every cylinder suggests it is not liner wear/piston slap.

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Re: non starter MGF

Post by itsonlyme54 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:40 am

this car is reaching a point where I cannot justify much more time trying to resolve this problem, work to date

head gasket replaced
oil change
new plugs
new air filter
compression test, all cylinders between 150-160
new genuine cat
new CTS

it runs/drives really well but emissions are nowhere near passing after four tests

first idle
CO 1.95
HC 195
Lambda 0.972

second fast idle
CO 2.47
HC 291
Lambda 0.937

natural idle
CO 1.93

any ideas would be most welcome, this is a very tidy car with full cream leather and the last resort is to break it

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