Non Starting MGF

[Mattyboy2154]

So, anyone that has been following this or anyone that is interested? I Have forged ahead with the HG change and associated belts, pumps, and gasket replacement. Car struck up first time of asking, but it still has white smoke/steam from the exhausts as it did before the HG change. This has dismayed me somewhat. I have sourced a compression tester and will see what that reads when I resume work on it on Thursday. I am hoping for a long shot and it's condensation in the fuel tank having been empty for the last 7 years.

[bobvvc]

Could be coolant left in the exhaust system maybe a good run will sort it out if there are no overheating issues

[Mattyboy2154]

Could be coolant left in the exhaust system maybe a good run will sort it out if there are no overheating issues

Thanks, the exhaust back box is rotten as a pear, I have a SS replacement waiting to be bolted on.

[RobboMC]

After the PO filled the entire exhaust system with coolant it took me a couple of hours of idling and running in the driveway to get rid of all the white smoke. Since I had no MoT I couldn't take it for a run and blast it out which you may be able to do. Don;t assume the worst until you have a boiling car, with a new HG it should be fine unless you got something wrong.

[Mattyboy2154]

Had a quick gander at it today. No coolant in the header tank. Got a major leak inside the head/block somewhere. Bores are dry but the oil level is way up. So I assume my coolant is sat in the sump. Time to cut my losses I think.

[RobboMC]

Ooohhh Nooooo

My car was like that when I got it.

That would be the bottom of the liners not sealed anymore after the HGF and associated stud stretching allowed the liners to lift and move up and down. My solution was a whole new engine.

It's not expensive to fix, but it is a LOT of work.

[redablue]

I have a 2001 MGF that will not start when cold, it will fire on 1 cyl then just wind over, To start I have to turn ignition on and wait till fuel pump stops then turn key all the way to off and wait approx. 15 seconds and repeat this process twice more the then car starts straight away, I have replaced the coolant sensor and just fitted a new fuel pump with no change to my starting problem ,has anyone come across this problem?
Brian in Melbourne, Australia.

[Mattyboy2154]

So, been at the F today and it has a coolant problem that I have never seen before. The coolant just drains from the header tank and drops out of the exhaust back box, you can watch it drain. I drilled two holes in the back box as it's scrap anyway and I have a new one. Anyone had this before? I can only assume something catastrophically wrong with the block. Compression check is equal across the bores at around 160psi, it fires and runs fine, it just empties it's coolant out the back rapidly.

[RobboMC]

If it's running out the exhaust pipe the surely the failure is the head. The exhaust pipes
come off the motor above the plane of the head gasket. If it's as bad as that then you could need another head.


Suggest you pull the head off and have a good look at proceedings in there and maybe get a professional to look at the head,
that's what I did, and I was told to use the head as a boat anchor. If the head has gone soft then it will never seal
regardless of how many head gaskets your replace.

If it's leaking into both the sump and the exhaust then it could still all be in the head as there are oil galleries right up there.

Interestingly you have compression, I had NONE in two cylinders and oil spraying out the spark plug holes when cranking the engine.

I guess the leak could be between the coolant and oil jackets, but if it's leaking into the exhaust I would have thought there would be no compression in at least one cylinder.

[Mattyboy2154]

Head off again today, exhaust header number 4 is full of water/coolant.

[Countax]

Matty,
Is there a gross error in the inlet manifold gasket around #4 inlet? That might be the route for coolant to take into the cylinder, but i would expect it to be rather slower than the speed at which you describe it is moving from coolant bottle to exhaust.
Nigel

[Mattyboy2154]

Exhaust port number 4 looks like that. I don't think the inlet is to blame. No water marks or anything there. The only thing I can't work out is how so much coolant is being lost, I can't see a hole of a size that would explain it. I also can't see how it is getting into the combustion chamber as the car simply would not run with that amount of water in there. #flummoxed

[RobboMC]

FB_IMG_1496416846909.jpg

Exhaust port number 4 looks like that. I don't think the inlet is to blame. No water marks or anything there. The only thing I can't work out is how so much coolant is being lost, I can't see a hole of a size that would explain it. I also can't see how it is getting into the combustion chamber as the car simply would not run with that amount of water in there. #flummoxed

If you feel you are right then you probably are right.

1) Car would not run with that much water in the combustion chamber ( and you have compression in that cylinder )

2) Water is getting into exhaust pipe


Conclusion - Water must be travelling from head directly into exhaust port and not via combustion chamber

Solution: take head to someone with more knowledge than you and I

[Mattyboy2154]

FB_IMG_1496416846909.jpg

Exhaust port number 4 looks like that. I don't think the inlet is to blame. No water marks or anything there. The only thing I can't work out is how so much coolant is being lost, I can't see a hole of a size that would explain it. I also can't see how it is getting into the combustion chamber as the car simply would not run with that amount of water in there. #flummoxed

If you feel you are right then you probably are right.

1) Car would not run with that much water in the combustion chamber ( and you have compression in that cylinder )

2) Water is getting into exhaust pipe


Conclusion - Water must be travelling from head directly into exhaust port and not via combustion chamber

Solution: take head to someone with more knowledge than you and I

Lol, Still debating on keeping the car. She is rock solid underneath and only a small patch of surface rust on the drivers side sill where the door has dropped. I am aware that if I let her go she will more than likely be scrapped or broken for parts and I think she deserves more than that. Just not sure if I have the budget to do her justice in the short term, if that makes sense? I am in consultation with a local engineering firm about the cylinder head to see if it can be saved or if I should source another. If I do repair it then I am not looking forward to stripping the head and the VVC mech, a bit beyond my abilities I think.

[bobvvc]

I rebuilt my vvc mech a while ago due to a cracked housing it wasn't a bad job really there's loads of info out there but until its all in pieces in front of you it doesn't make lot of sense but if you got the head off and back on again it shouldn't be that much of a problem

[Mattyboy2154]

So, if I take the cams out, what happens to the timing? I realise this might be a silly question, but am I correct in thinking that the cams sit in a dowel or some other locating pin on the cam wheels so you just insert it all and line up the timing marks as normal?

[Countax]

Matty,
Take a look on MG-Rover.org forum and do a search in the 'How do i...' section for a thread by Dave_Andrews called Fitting and synchronizing VVC units. Then go the reply written by Stu within that thread and click on the link. Using this data i have rebuild several VVC heads.
Do NOT under any circumstances take apart the actual VVC mechanisms (the bits that bolt onto the ends of the head) they are manufactured to within a few microns and need to be kept in the state they left the factory. If you take them apart the chances are you will never get the complex parts back in the right position. They can be lifted off the head with the cam shafts and stored carefully. I use plastic milk bottles with the handle cut off to store these twp parts so the cam stays inserted into the VVC mechanism.
The only other advise i can offer is DO NOT USE silicon to reseal the cam carrier as it may block the oil ways. I have tried Wellseal, but found it did not do well at the high temps reached in the head. Others have found it to be fine. I use the correct sealant recommended by Rover and bought a small bottle off the well known auction site.
Good luck and please keep us updated.
Nigel

[Mattyboy2154]

Thanks Nigel,

There is a bit in the manual about keeping the inlet cams in sync with each other, I assume that is done with the thin spindle that goes from the VVC unit across the back of the head where the two parts of the head are joined and then into the VVC mech? My plan was to keep all that together by separating the two parts of the head and lift the cams out carrier as well. But, I shall read the forum section you describe and go from there.

Matty

[Countax]

Matty,
Yes, if you can keep the parts together on the cam carrier that is the best way.
Nigel

[Mattyboy2154]

Update.

Cylinder head is a paperweight, too far corroded to be cost effectively repaired. The lesson there is to always use the correct antifreeze mixed with distilled water. At a crossroads now as to whether I sell the car as a non runner, source a new VVC head, source a new engine or go the whole hog and get a donor car with a running engine and the leather interior I want for it long term.

Suffice to say I have some thinking to do.

Matty