VVC Head Cambelt

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Mattyboy2154
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:30 pm
MGF Register Region: East Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC

VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Mattyboy2154 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:52 pm

Hi all.

Is there anyone on this forum that is knowledgeable about the VVC heads? More specifically, what to do if some moron (namely me) has caused the timing to go out of whack when I neglected to remove the cam locking tool when trying to slacken off the 22mm crank pulley bolt.


Thanks in advance,

Matty
Matty

2016 VW up! Street in Silver
2016 BMW 118d Sport auto in Mineral Grey
1996 MGF 1.8 VVC in Metallic Green

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Rob Bell
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Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Rob Bell » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:41 pm

Cam or crank Matty?

I sympathise with your predicament - and many on-line instructions are misleading bodges I fear...

Mattyboy2154
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:30 pm
MGF Register Region: East Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC

Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Mattyboy2154 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:42 pm

Rob Bell wrote:Cam or crank Matty?

I sympathise with your predicament - and many on-line instructions are misleading bodges I fear...
Thanks for replying, I am disappointed in myself for doing it.

So, if I line the crank pulley mark with the 'safe' mark in the cam cover so they are both at '12 O'Clock' the inlet cam seems to be down one notch and the exhaust seems to up one notch. I noticed my error and I haven't turned the engine through a full revolution. My thought was to keep the crank pulley where it is so I know the pistons are halfway down the bore and safe, then remove the timing belt and turn the cams via the cam wheels to where they should be, ie with the notches in the 3 O'clock and 9 O'clock positions and put the cam lock tool back in. This is where it should be when it is timed up correctly. I haven't done it yet as I thought I would consult to see if it was the right way to do it.

Any advice offered it appreciated.

Matty
Matty

2016 VW up! Street in Silver
2016 BMW 118d Sport auto in Mineral Grey
1996 MGF 1.8 VVC in Metallic Green

Countax
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MGF Register Region: Cotswolds

Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Countax » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Matty,
Have a look at the 'How to' section on www.the-t-bar.com for some good directions on changing or checking the VVC timing belt.
I am not quite sure where you are at now. Did you manage to remove the crank pulley?
If not then be careful not to mix up the TDC mark with the safe position mark on the plastic timing belt cover down by the crank pulley. The safe marker is offset to the right of the TDC mark. It is best to lock the crank by removing the starter and using a locking tool on the flywheel.
If you have managed to remove the crank pulley then you should be looking to align it in safe mode using the two dots on the crank gear. In this position the marks on the inlet and exhaust cams should be aligned.
If you are changing the belt then a good tip is to tipex a point on the belt and across to the exhaust cam, inlet cam and crank. Then after removing the old belt transfer these marks to the new belt and if you knew the old one was fitted in the right position then the new one will go back in the same position.
The VVC timing belt can be a bit of a pig to fit with the tensioner in place. I use clothes pegs to hold the belt in place on the 2 cams and crank gear and then fit the tensioner last. It is very easy to get the belt one tooth out so the above method is the best way i have found to avoid this.
The small VVC belt is also easy to get one tooth out so i use the tipex method on this belt as well. Removing the cam gear is difficult and i find the laser cam holding tool difficult to use on these unless you have a second person to hold the laser tool. It may not be to everyones liking, but i change this belt first by using the old long timing belt with the flywheel locked to hold the exhaust cam and then undo the small VVC belt cam gear securing bolts. I seem to recall the manual says you need to remove both of the short belt cam gears, but i think i got away with just removing one the last time i did mine. Check the inside of the gears for damage where the locating key sits in the camshaft. If this slot of damaged then you can get the gears misaligned.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Nigel

Mattyboy2154
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MGF Register Region: East Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC

Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Mattyboy2154 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:47 pm

Nigel,

Nope, not removed the crank pulley. It was during this process that think I caused the timing belt to slip, although I am still not sure how a toothed belt can slip? But the up shot is that before I tried to slacken the crank pulley bolt the notches on the two cam wheels lined up perfectly when the crank pulley notch was at 12 Oclock and in line with the safe mark on the cover, now they do not. As soon as I realised my mistake of leaving the cam locking tool in while trying to slacken off the crank pulley, I left well alone and as it stands the pistons are now in the safe position of halfway down the bore, crank pulley notch is at 12 Oclock, the notch on the inlet cam wheel is one tooth clockwise past 3 O clock and the exhaust cam is one tooth before 9 Oclock.

The only thing I need to know is can I remove the belt, and move both cam wheels the tiny amount back where they should be and then refit the belt? or am I going to have pistons meeting valves if I do that? the only other thing I can think of is the toothed wheel that sits behind the crank pulley is now out of line with the crank pulley. Just not sure what to do for the best.

Matty
Matty

2016 VW up! Street in Silver
2016 BMW 118d Sport auto in Mineral Grey
1996 MGF 1.8 VVC in Metallic Green

Countax
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Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Countax » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:38 am

If you have doubt about whether the pistons are in safe mode then whip out the plugs and use a long measuring tool (very long screwdriver, stiff piece of wire or plant cane etc) to measure each piston height. If they are all the same then it is safe to remove the belt and re-position the cam gears to re-time the engine.
It sounds like it would be better to replace the belts as they will have taken some extreme abuse when you initially tried to undo the crank pulley. If these belts fail whilst the engine is running you will be faced with an expensive head repair or replacement.
Are you 100% sure you are using the correct safe alignment mark on the crank pulley / lower plastic cover? I thought the correct one was closer to 1 O'Clock position.
I would also advise investing in the flywheel locking tool if you do not have one, but get the right one as there are two types.
Nigel

Mattyboy2154
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:30 pm
MGF Register Region: East Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC

Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Mattyboy2154 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:26 pm

Nigel,

Thanks for your reply. I have checked the pistons and they are indeed all at the same height half way down the bore ( I used the aerial off the back of the MG with the rubber tip removed) I am certain the crank pulley is at the safe mark on the lower cam cover. There are timing marks off to the 10 and 11 OClock positions and the safe mark further round. It is reassuring that my original thought of removing the belt and moving the cams to the correct timing is the right way to do it and I will change all the belts, gaskets and waterpump whilst I am down there. It also has a leaky under body coolant pipe which I will change while the car is empty of coolant. I didn't want to shell out £27 for the flywheel locking tool as it seems that it will be a single use item for about 10 seconds. But I think I will invest and try to sell it on a well known internet auction site to get some of my money back. It seems worth it as I have had a lucky escape and don't want any more slip ups.

Thanks for your time again Nigel and I will keep this thread updated.

Matty
Matty

2016 VW up! Street in Silver
2016 BMW 118d Sport auto in Mineral Grey
1996 MGF 1.8 VVC in Metallic Green

Countax
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:40 pm
MGF Register Region: Cotswolds

Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Countax » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:48 pm

Matty,
Good luck doing the water pump in situ with the head on, its a right bugger.
If you fancy a drive down the Fosse way to Cirencester, or can get transport arranged, i have a coolant under floor pipe set you can have FOC. It is the steel type as originally fitted to the MGF and had just been replaced on the donor car i bought. My car has the stainless pipe so i did not need it, but i removed it before scrapping the donor car. There is nothing wrong with the pipe set.
If you plan to keep the MGF then the locking tool will be a worthwhile investment.
Nigel

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RobboMC
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Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by RobboMC » Mon May 01, 2017 3:50 am

Hi Matty,

The car that I have rescued back into roadworthy condition came to me with a smashed starter motor and
a tooth missing off the flywheel ring gear. Some goose had tried to jam something in there to get the crank pulley bolt out,

£27 for the correct flywheel lock is the best investment you will ever make IMHO

See my thread titled Project Swamp for the photos.

Mattyboy2154
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:30 pm
MGF Register Region: East Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC

Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Mattyboy2154 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:45 am

Nigel,

Many thanks for the kind offer, a 5 hour+ round trip from sunny Lincoln might be a bit much for me. If you want to wrap them in bubble wrap and Hermes them to me if I pay for postage, then that would be cool...


RobboMC, I have bought the flywheel lock tool. I am only in the car for £145 at the moment, which includes the £100 purchase price! So I thought £27 isn't much in the grand scheme of things. I hope to have the head off tomorrow, I will then make a list of the parts I need to rebuild it and get them bought.

Hopefully, by the end of the week, I shall be updating this thread with news of a fully working F.

Thanks again for your inputs.

Matty
Matty

2016 VW up! Street in Silver
2016 BMW 118d Sport auto in Mineral Grey
1996 MGF 1.8 VVC in Metallic Green

Mattyboy2154
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:30 pm
MGF Register Region: East Midlands
Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC

Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Mattyboy2154 » Mon May 01, 2017 1:22 pm

Nigel,

I did reply to your PM but I am not certain if it sent it.

Matty
Matty

2016 VW up! Street in Silver
2016 BMW 118d Sport auto in Mineral Grey
1996 MGF 1.8 VVC in Metallic Green

Countax
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:40 pm
MGF Register Region: Cotswolds

Re: VVC Head Cambelt

Post by Countax » Mon May 01, 2017 8:03 pm

Matty,
I have a message in my inbox, but it says it was deleted by the author so there is no content.
Nigel

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