Recharging spheres Tecnosir
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Not many rules really, this board being aimed at technical issues, it shouldn't fall foul (hopefully) of some of the more personal issues that can affect forums.
Rule 1 - Is that you need to think very carefully before posting anything technical or asking anything technical relating to the security system of the car - See 'Security Issues' sticky for more info.
Rule 2 - We (MGF Register) do not support copyright infringement and therefore references to CD ROM, PDF versions or paper copies of the workshop manual (for instance) should not be posted on the forum. We don't want to get into trouble and we'd rather sell you a genuine hard copy through our Regalia shop anyway!
Because advice is honestly and freely given in this technical section, much of it will be amateur experienced based, so any information is given in good faith and is not guaranteed as correct.
- John SS
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Recharging spheres Tecnosir
Having read of the terrific improvements in ride quality members have achieved, I am planning to regas my spheres in the coming winter (also fitting adjustable shocks). Does anybody have any experience of the Tecnosir Citroen system which, with suitably sized inserts TIG welded on to the spheres, looks like it should do the job?
http://www.tecnosirstore.com/recharging ... -c720.html
http://www.tecnosirstore.com/recharging ... -c720.html
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
http://www.mikesatur.co.uk/index.php?ro ... uct_id=833However this can be quite costly and I have seen prices of £300-400 +pounds for the 4 units plus fitting,this can involve welding a boss to the canister and great care must be taken to prevent heat damage to the internal rubber diaphragm . For those devotees wishing to keep the hydragas and the car as it came out of the factory then this is the route to take..as an alternative to the current prices for this I am working on producing a valve that can be quickly inserted by a competent mechanic/engineer and then be re-charged at a service centre with nitrogen facilities. This will bring down the cost from £350/£400+ to approx £100 and there will be no need to remove the units to undertake this work nor the risk of heat damage or DIY welding..it is my opinion that strict welding procedures undertaken by trained coded welders should be employed due to the high pressures involved. So far I have seen little evidence of this or any protection offered in the form of product liability insurance so buyer beware!
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
Really interesting, thanks for this. Will be interesting to see what Mike comes up with.However this can be quite costly and I have seen prices of £300-400 +pounds for the 4 units plus fitting,this can involve welding a boss to the canister and great care must be taken to prevent heat damage to the internal rubber diaphragm . For those devotees wishing to keep the hydragas and the car as it came out of the factory then this is the route to take..as an alternative to the current prices for this I am working on producing a valve that can be quickly inserted by a competent mechanic/engineer and then be re-charged at a service centre with nitrogen facilities. This will bring down the cost from £350/£400+ to approx £100 and there will be no need to remove the units to undertake this work nor the risk of heat damage or DIY welding..it is my opinion that strict welding procedures undertaken by trained coded welders should be employed due to the high pressures involved. So far I have seen little evidence of this or any protection offered in the form of product liability insurance so buyer beware!
- Bigfootmgf
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
Hi I have had mine done by Ian Kennedy and he is a fully qualified pressure vessel welder.
He takes great care as to not damage the membranes inside, he tests & checks for leaks so as far as I can see it was the only option
He takes great care as to not damage the membranes inside, he tests & checks for leaks so as far as I can see it was the only option
Paul
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
* Comment Deleted *Bigfootmgf wrote:Hi I have had mine done by Ian Kennedy and he is a fully qualified pressure vessel welder.
He takes great care as to not damage the membranes inside, he tests & checks for leaks so as far as I can see it was the only option
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
Sorry but I haven't seen any of what your saying !
But he did show me how he did it and the workmanship looked good to me.
I don't know of any others doing this kind of thing? I just wanted to keep my car on the road at the end of the day
But he did show me how he did it and the workmanship looked good to me.
I don't know of any others doing this kind of thing? I just wanted to keep my car on the road at the end of the day
Paul
Mod's cost money that you don't have or you could have if you did not have mods!
Bigfootmgf youtube Channel
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Mod's cost money that you don't have or you could have if you did not have mods!
Bigfootmgf youtube Channel
SE MGF Facebook page
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
* Comment Deleted *Bigfootmgf wrote:Sorry but I haven't seen any of what your saying !
But he did show me how he did it and the workmanship looked good to me.
I don't know of any others doing this kind of thing? I just wanted to keep my car on the road at the end of the day
- Bigfootmgf
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
Oh okay it will be interesting to see what he comes up with hopefully I shouldn't need it for a bit
Paul
Mod's cost money that you don't have or you could have if you did not have mods!
Bigfootmgf youtube Channel
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Mod's cost money that you don't have or you could have if you did not have mods!
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- Rob Bell
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
This is a challenging problem: I've read that some have had problems with their welded bosses or Schrader valves that requires the system to be re-gassed with nitrogen every year. IMO that is not a good solution. Moulton Dunlop managed a solution that lasts over 20 years!
There's a company in New Zealand that has worked out how to recharge the sphere and replaces the gas-tight rivet - which to me seems like an ideal solution that looks factory.
I don't know what Mike's solution is going to be (a pressed in valve replacing the original fill rivet perhaps?)
But mine certainly need replacing, and a high-quality TIG welded boss and good quality high-pressure valves are essential. I'd certainly be interested to hear your long-term experience with Ian's work Paul
There's a company in New Zealand that has worked out how to recharge the sphere and replaces the gas-tight rivet - which to me seems like an ideal solution that looks factory.
I don't know what Mike's solution is going to be (a pressed in valve replacing the original fill rivet perhaps?)
But mine certainly need replacing, and a high-quality TIG welded boss and good quality high-pressure valves are essential. I'd certainly be interested to hear your long-term experience with Ian's work Paul
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
I've read similar, but as far as I could see the person who first raised the problem eventually concluded that there was no pressure loss, just different ambient conditions.Rob Bell wrote:This is a challenging problem: I've read that some have had problems with their welded bosses or Schrader valves that requires the system to be re-gassed with nitrogen every year. IMO that is not a good solution. Moulton Dunlop managed a solution that lasts over 20 years!
- John SS
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
I had an email from Mike at the weekend with the following info;Rob Bell wrote:I don't know what Mike's solution is going to be (a pressed in valve replacing the original fill rivet perhaps
I'm having a meeting with my machinist in the morning and we shall see how long it is likely to take..perhaps 1-2 weeks. I have done some costings and we believe we can supply a set of 4 for £70 plus or minus a few £££ The spheres can be temporarily recharged with air to enable it to be driven to a nitrogen supplier.I would think the cost would be £40-60 at the most.The main saving is the cost for stripping out and refitting these units.. Around £120-150 ..which won't be necessary and the excessive charges for re-gassing £350 ish so there will be a saving of around £300+.
Regards
Mike
Certainly looks like a really interesting option especially as it avoids having to remove the spheres.
- Bigfootmgf
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
Still early days with mine Rob but it okay at the moment! The ride takes me back to what it was like when I first bought the car just love it!
Paul
Mod's cost money that you don't have or you could have if you did not have mods!
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Mod's cost money that you don't have or you could have if you did not have mods!
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- Rob Bell
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
Where's Ian based? I might drop him a line. I'd be happy to supply the hydragas spheres to be modified and re-charged
- Rob Bell
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
It'll be interesting to see what Mike comes up with!John SS wrote:I had an email from Mike at the weekend with the following info;Rob Bell wrote:I don't know what Mike's solution is going to be (a pressed in valve replacing the original fill rivet perhaps
I'm having a meeting with my machinist in the morning and we shall see how long it is likely to take..perhaps 1-2 weeks. I have done some costings and we believe we can supply a set of 4 for £70 plus or minus a few £££ The spheres can be temporarily recharged with air to enable it to be driven to a nitrogen supplier.I would think the cost would be £40-60 at the most.The main saving is the cost for stripping out and refitting these units.. Around £120-150 ..which won't be necessary and the excessive charges for re-gassing £350 ish so there will be a saving of around £300+.
Regards
Mike
Certainly looks like a really interesting option especially as it avoids having to remove the spheres.
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
What's the gas volume in the spheres? Seems like what you want is a pressure vessel the same size with 800psi nitrogen inside it. Simply connect the two and allow pressure to equalise. Much easier than trying to take the car somewhere to be pumped up.
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
I am confused: does mike come up with a regassing solution or does he, like stated on his website, come up with alternative springs and dampers?
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- Reckless Rat
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
Ian Kennedy is based in Telford.
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
Both?jaapaap1111 wrote:I am confused: does mike come up with a regassing solution or does he, like stated on his website, come up with alternative springs and dampers?
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Although when I asked him he said coil conversion...
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
If you have a look at the link I posted above, it's mainly about a coil-spring conversion.jaapaap1111 wrote:I am confused: does mike come up with a regassing solution or does he, like stated on his website, come up with alternative springs and dampers?
- John SS
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Re: Recharging spheres Tecnosir
He will have both a coil spring conversion and a regassing kit.jaapaap1111 wrote:I am confused: does mike come up with a regassing solution or does he, like stated on his website, come up with alternative springs and dampers?
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