The MGF Register Forums

Less than 12,000 miles on the new engine and this:
Anyone done this job before, got any helpful hints.
I've opened the top cover and poked fingers down and there is oil
around the belt tensioner.

I fitted this timing belt myself so I know what the job entails.

No I won't be driving it until a new seal and new belt is fitted. I guess all is not lost, the belt
didn't have time to go soft and jump teeth.

RobboMC, almost guaranteed the camshaft oil seals (Rimmers p/n LUC100290) will need replacing. Mine has the same issue, which I will be having done when the timing belts/water pumps are done in the next couple of months. Only issue is, the timing wheels and everything has to be removed to get into where the seal are. Mine's a VVC, so it happily seeps oil from both ends of the engine.

Mine's been seeping for a few years no. It doesn't seem to get any worse or better.

No sadly this looks like it's coming from the crankshaft seal.

I've had the top cover open and it's dry up the top.

When I think about the laws of momentum and the crank floating in it's bearings I wonder
if my very zealous cornering has pushed the crank out through the seal as it floats on the thrust bearings.

Bugger! But then, maybe its time for an engine upgrade so that you can corner even more zealously in the future.

RobboMC wrote:No sadly this looks like it's coming from the crankshaft seal.

I've had the top cover open and it's dry up the top.

When I think about the laws of momentum and the crank floating in it's bearings I wonder
if my very zealous cornering has pushed the crank out through the seal as it floats on the thrust bearings.

I agree, crankshaft oil seal.

I think that seal is in the oil pump cover plate so relatively easy to change once the pulley has been removed.

I think you're probably more likely (if there is any end float on the crank) to get movement when you depress the clutch, rather than when cornering!

So what parts am I going to need?

As far as I can see it's just the seal and the timing belt.
My tensioner has only done 12,000 miles, should I fit a new one?

Personallly I would fit a new belt, tensioner and water pump. Given the awkwardness of getting to the belt & tensioner you might as well do the lot and have piece of mind for the next 4 years.

I still can't help but feel that this is caused by something I have done to the car. Seals like this shouldn't fail in 12,000 miles or 2-3 years.

I know many of these have been tracked and raced over the years so surely we would know by now if it was the driving treatment.

Anyone got any suggestions?

No, I did not fit the seal, it all came bolted togther as a 'new' engine. I did however fit a new timing belt as I had no idea how old the fitted one was;
and I fitted my MEMS1.9 cams.

So if the cam seals were leaking I could blame myself. Interestingly, none of the engine work I did (cam seals and the ladder; and cam cover) is leaking.
About the only thing I didn't touch; and it's gone.

The culprit has been uncovered,
easily removed and replaced without special tools.

There was also a small dent in the timing gear flange ( now repaired ) and some wear on the inner edge of the belt.
( fitting new belt of course ) Looks like the pulley might have got a whack somehow.

Yes I have had the closing panel fitted.

Now I just have to refit all the stuff I removed and put the car back together.

Result!

Don't cheer just yet, I've still got to put the bugger back together.

Getting the timing belt back on can be a fiddle. Leave the cam locking tool in place but remove the crank lock. You have to ease the belt into place bit by bit but keep the exhaust cam to crank run tight. In order to do that you might have to ease the crankshaft a little. Once youve got it back on rotate the crankshaft two full turns to make sure the cam and crank timing marks still line up.
Good luck

ah yep!

I've realized that the anti-clockwise undoing of the crank bolt is always going to take
all the slack out of the tensioner side of the belt run. It's only maybe 1/4 of a belt tooth,
but it's enough. when I turned the bolt there was the slightest noise of the locking tools locking everything in place,
but enough movement put some slack on the exhaust side belt run.

The workshop manual provides the hint - 'maintain the belt taut on the exhaust side'

What the manual doesn't say is that if the exhaust side is not really tight then you simply will not get the belt on.

My belt is on, but not centered on the pulleys, so I have to loosen the tension and slide it across a few more millimetres.

Shud be running this weekend except the weather forecast is for 40 degrees and my garage isn't insulated.

RobboMC wrote:Shud be running this weekend except the weather forecast is for 40 degrees and my garage isn't insulated.

My garage isn't insulated either but I brave it, yesterday saw me out there changing a cassette on my road bike with the thermometer hovering somewhere around about 3C.................. so 40 degrees, bring it on!!

I have air-con and heating in my garage for all year round fiddling...

So the workshop manual should say - pull the belt as frigging tight as you humanly can on the exhaust side.

Turned out my exhaust cam was one tooth out.
when I removed it and got the exhaust side tension right the belt slipped straight on,
but it was under proper tension for a week without running.

Sooo for the new people that might read this, if you timing belt doesn't go on
within the first 10 minutes using your fingers only then something is wrong.

My cam timing is now correctly set so all I have to do now is replace the covers and the starter motor
and I'll be driving in the sunshine again.

I know it shud be all done by now but I have other responsibilities such as an aged father to look after.

And here is my newest friend. Every F owner shud have one.

I dont understand how you can have the exhaust cam a tooth out if you use the cam locking tool with the cam wheel timing marks properly aligned. Before you start the engine you MUST rotate the crankshaft two full turns in order to verify that ALLtiming marks (cams and crank) are still coincident. This is obviously best done before you put the cam covers back on. Good luck.

To clarify - in order to get the exhaust side cam belt run on correctly, it's often necessary to 'ease' the crankshaft a tiny bit in order to get the belt onto the pulleys correctly. The exhaust side run should be tight. The cams should be locked together to prevent any movement "up top" and the crank moved a tiny tiny fraction to facilitate mounting the belt. This photo shows the crank position, the dots still either side of the alignment mark, but slightly off-centre.

To clarify, both the cams were one tooth out, exhaust 1 tooth down at the marks and inlet one tooth up.
It seems I didn't have enough belt tension on the exhaust run. I had awful trouble getting the new belt to stretch around the tensioner pulley.
so all the slack was on the exhaust run and when it's taken up the belt tension properly upon rotating the engine slowly by hand it's ended up one tooth out. With correct exhaust side tension the belt slipped onto the other pulleys quite easily.

I replaced the cams when I installed this engine so I know how it's all meant to go.I did that mercifully with the engine on the ground so I didn't
have the access issues of an in situ belt change. So I knew it wasn't right when I did that final check over so I took it apart and did it again.
With hindsight when I first tightened up the crank bolt I did feel the engine turn slightly.

It's all good now, I was able to set up the crank pulley properly with the locking tool, remove the cam lock and set the cam timing properly.
and I've done a bit of hand rotating and the timing marks are all still lining up perfectly now.

Forget 2 turns of the engine, after the initial retensioning I do about 6-8 turns, check timing, check belt tension, 8 more turns, check timing every 2 turns, check tension. No rush, I want it right and I'm not paying for my own labour.

There is a lot to be said for doing a test build, taking it apart and doing it a second time.
Time consuming but the result is much, much better and I'm working with much more confidence and speed now.

Just need a spare night to pop the covers and starter motor back on now.

Found a spare moment to put it all back together; and while the engine cover was off changed the oil and filter.

When I fired the car up the tappets were empty, especially on the inlet side.

I guess this was because I rotated the cams to reset the cam timing, taking the tension off the tappets.
I'm sure you all know the cam pops out of position when you remove the locking tool.

I probably should have done it the other way and rotated the crank one tooth, but that would
have meant removing and replacing the crank locking tool. Moving the cams looked like an easier path.
I should have tried to hold the cams in place and just ease them around one tooth, rather than letting them flip away.

This really tests your confidence in having set the timing properly. It sounds like
world war three for a few minutes and you pray it's not valves hitting pistons.

However after what seemed a very, very long time the oil started to warm up and the awful noises
at first got a bit quieter and then disappeared completely. I assume it takes warmish oil to get into the tappets properly,
which now have fresh oil in there as I did an oil change while I was in the engine bay.

So now for some test driving. The sun is shining and the birds are singing.

Turns out my original mistake was a smallish one that snowballed, I didn't remove the cover plate from
behind the starter motor, so this fouled the crank locking tool and so the crank wasn't locked properly,
allowing it to turn one tooth when I torqued up the crank bolt.

Experience, they say, can only be gained from mistakes.