ULEZ compliance

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Rob Bell
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ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:59 pm

Dear all,

I don't know how many the London ULEZ will impact, but it will certainly impact me as I live within the confines of the North Circular. Which will mean a punitive emissions tax every time I want to drive my 1995/96 MGF. :rant:

Interestingly, EU3 approved MEMS3-equipped cars are ULEZ exempt, because the K-series was homologated with a very low NOx level, which seems to be all that ULEZ is really concerned about.

According to Philip Christain (he of pscan fame), K-series engines have been retro-approved for ULEZ - by presumably upgrading older MEMS1.9 and 2J to MEMS3 specification. Can I find anything related to this on a Google search? Nope. Anything on any official websites? Nope.

So I've found https://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/tr ... heme-cvras

I have emailed the CVRAS team, and will let you know the answer. And if I haven't heard from them, I'll call. I'm having to sell one of my MGs because of this (the ZTT CDTi) and I don't want to get rid of any of the others (or end up having to trailer them out of the emissions zone).

So annoying. :evil:

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Green Squirrel » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:14 pm

We are just outside the boundary BUT if we head west from our estate 200 yards sees us entering the ULEZ zone !

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by johncooper » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:40 pm

You can check if your car is eligible for a charge under ULEZ by logging on to tfl.gov.uk and then going to Check Your Vehicle and then by simply putting in your registration number. I've just checked my 2004 54 MGF/TF 135 and it is not liable for the charge.

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:16 am

I'm still waiting to hear back regarding whether converting from MEMS 1.9/2J to MEMS3 will lead to exemption from ULEZ charges. Will call them this afternoon if nothing heard back by email (this is officialdom, so phone call will be necessary!)

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:43 am

No email. Called contact number. Given new email address (transportadvice@est.org.uk). :roll:

I have emailed new email address. It'll be "interesting" to see whether I get a response, but there doesn't appear to be a direct telephone number attached to this email address that I can find.

I'll let you all know...

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:10 pm

Update time - there are a couple of emails going through the system, but I have had one response so far, which I reproduce here with my original email in the trail:
Colin Smith wrote:Dear Rob

Many thanks for your email, unfortunately we do not have any approved retrofit systems for petrol cars to take a petrol car from pre-Euro 4 to Euro 4 equivalence. We are not expecting any retrofit system supplier to develop systems for this market sector due to the limited market demand that would justify the investment. TfL would only accept a retrofitted vehicle if the system was CVRAS approved.

I understand this is considered a cherished vehicle but unfortunately not quite “historic vehicle” tax class/status that would be exempt from the ULEZ. The only way I think TfL would recognise your car as ULEZ compliant is if you could provide the evidence to TfL that the vehicle was now Euro 4 level for NOx (i.e. 0.08 g/km or 80mg/km) as tested over the New European Drive Cycle (even though this has been superseded by the WLTC). This would also most likely be needed to get your V5C document changed to reflect the new NOx value and alter the record on the DVLA database. This is not a simple MOT style test and it would need to be conducted at a VCA approved test facility on a rolling road and not cheap to conduct, this could be around £8k to £10k, so along with the cost of the conversion this test would also need to be covered by yourself or the supplier of the conversion. The test would be equivalent to the one conducted by MG to get the original type approval values.

If you are only driving this vehicle occasionally then it may take quite a while to repay the cost of conversion and the emissions approval test when the daily charge is £12.50. Unlike the congestion charge the ULEZ applies all day every day.

The ULEZ policy is designed to deter the more polluting vehicles from driving in the zone in order to improve air quality for all and with the evidence pointing towards the NO2 levels in London leading to more health issues, including cardiovascular problems.

I hope this helps even though it may not have been the response you were hoping to hear.

Kind regards
Colin

Colin Smith
Programme Manager – Freight & Clean Vehicle Retrofit Certification
Group Transport

Energy Saving Trust | 30 North Colonnade | Canary Wharf | London | E14 5GP

From: Bell, Robert
Sent: 15 November 2019 14:51
To: CVRAS <CVRAS@est.org.uk>
Subject: Rover 4-cylinder K-series engines

Dear CVRAS team,

I am writing to ask about certification for my 1996 MGF. It currently has an EU2-compliant K-series engine and engine/emissions management system. I can up-grade this to the later EU-compliant specification by fitment of the newer engine management, ignition and emissions equipment.

As you know, EU3-compliant 4-cylinder Rover K-series engines are ULEZ compliant by dint of their lower homologated NOx emission.

Can you give me the process by which I can convert my car and gain appropriate regulatory approval? (I will live within the extended ULEZ zone when it expands to the North Circular – I do not use my car for commuting, only for weekend social use).

Many thanks for your help

Rob



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It always amazes me that folks can avoid answering the question that is being posed - perhaps because he hasn't realised that EU3 compliant K-series comes under the NOx levels set for EU4. I have re-phrased my original question making that point explicit: I hope that retro-fitting EU3 equipment will not require VCA certification testing...

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by colintf » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:19 pm

Good luck Rob :thumbsu:

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by CubMG » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:17 pm

There are a few motorbikes that have been tested to get exemption with success including 2 strokes and C90s It can only be done at one place that is approved by TFL and cost about £175 ,but if you live in the zone and use the vehicle /bike every day it will soon pay for itself but it only covers the one reg number ,not all similar engines .
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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Gavin207 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:15 am

Just checked my '54 TF and glad to see that it is exempt, however my '74 Midget is stated as being due the charge, despite obviously being a 'historic vehicle' and so exempt. It appears their computer only checks emissions standards, and not year of manufacture, so if you have an historic vehicle you will have to register it.

Just set up a charging account and registered the Midget, and once registered it says it is Exempt, so there may be a disconnect between the checking page and once registered.
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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:57 am

CubMG wrote:There are a few motorbikes that have been tested to get exemption with success including 2 strokes and C90s It can only be done at one place that is approved by TFL and cost about £175 ,but if you live in the zone and use the vehicle /bike every day it will soon pay for itself but it only covers the one reg number ,not all similar engines .
Thanks CubMG - do you have more details about this?

I get the impression that I'll need to get my V5 modified to include the emissions exemption - figures that my EU2 MGF doesn't currently have. I wonder whether it will also have a beneficial impact on my Road Tax? :?
Gavin207 wrote:Just checked my '54 TF and glad to see that it is exempt, however my '74 Midget is stated as being due the charge, despite obviously being a 'historic vehicle' and so exempt. It appears their computer only checks emissions standards, and not year of manufacture, so if you have an historic vehicle you will have to register it.

Just set up a charging account and registered the Midget, and once registered it says it is Exempt, so there may be a disconnect between the checking page and once registered.
That's useful to know. I'll get my "historics" registered then :thumbsu:

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by CubMG » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:25 pm

I do not know if TFl have any centres that can test cars ,you need to have the car tested and then as long as it passes you can get it listed .

This is the place that does bikes ,may be worth a call to see if they know of any where that tests cars .

Currently, Riverbank Motorcycles is the only TfL approved facility for testing ULEZ compliance. They will be accepting appointments from early April 2019 and bookings are going to be available very soon. The test will cost £175 - which is the equivalent of just 14 days riding in the ULEZ zone.

For more information, or to book a test, visit their website or call them on 020 8983 4896.
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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:26 pm

Awesome, thanks! :D :thumbsu:

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:39 pm

Phoned them: Riverbank Motorcycles ONLY test motorcycles. :(

According to the chap I spoke to, no one does similar testing for cars (which seems odd?)

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:33 am

Recent article in Classic Car Weekly on this topic - I'll drop the author, Charlie Calderwood, and email and copy in Dave Andrews :)

Image

Cross posted from https://autoshite.com/topic/38568-the-h ... -exempted/

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:16 pm

I've been chatting to Charlie Calderwood - and I am going to see whether we can follow up on this. Charlie had the good suggestion of using an IVA test centre to prove whether or not the emissions are acceptable. Charlies is going to see whether he can find out who to liaise with at TfL to get retrospective compliance data accepted.

In the mean time, I have also emails Riverbank Motorcycles to see whether they can provide me with some idea as to what process they apply.

Let's see how this pans out...

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:23 pm

Slightly disappointing, but understandable response from Riverbank (I do appreciate them coming back to me so quickly!):
Hi Rob,
Im sorry all our contacts are not for the public domain.
It is up to the prospective testing company to contact TFL if they believe they have the ability to meet TFLs testing standards.
Im sorry I cannot be of further help in this.
Regards
Neil

On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:02 PM:
Name: Rob Bell
Subject: How to notify TfL of compliance with ULEZ emissions standards?
Message: Dear Riverbank team,

sadly, I know you do not cover older cars that are falling into the same trap as motorcycles in respect to ULEZ compliance, but I wonder what the process of informing TfL of compliance?

I have the plan of using an IVA test centre to get the NOx compliance data - but TfL themselves are not being that helpful in providing a clear route to retrospective approval of emissions compliance.

I appreciate that this is off the beaten track for you guys, but I wonder whether you might be able to provide some contacts within TfL etc. who would be able to help?

kind regards

Rob
(Sent via NETC)

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by talkingcars » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:40 pm

Miserable bunch on that linked site.
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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:33 am

It has a certain "character" about it, yes! :lol:

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by Rob Bell » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:35 am

Sit rep: after a few behind-the-scenes conversations, I've now contacted the only privately-owned IVA test centre in the UK to see whether they may be interested in what might be quite a nice little money earner for them. My only concern is that they're in the Midlands, and this would be a little way off their main core business interest. We shall see.

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Re: ULEZ compliance

Post by CubMG » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:19 pm

The test result is a rolling road NOx readout , I have PMd the person who had it done to see if he has any more information.

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