Key and alarm fob info please?

http://www.ukmgparts.com
Ask the Gurus - Use this board to discuss problems or technical issues you have with your MGF/TF - there's always an expert around to help you!

Moderator: Committee Members

Forum rules
Not many rules really, this board being aimed at technical issues, it shouldn't fall foul (hopefully) of some of the more personal issues that can affect forums.

Rule 1 - Is that you need to think very carefully before posting anything technical or asking anything technical relating to the security system of the car - See 'Security Issues' sticky for more info.

Rule 2 - We (MGF Register) do not support copyright infringement and therefore references to CD ROM, PDF versions or paper copies of the workshop manual (for instance) should not be posted on the forum. We don't want to get into trouble and we'd rather sell you a genuine hard copy through our Regalia shop anyway! :)

Because advice is honestly and freely given in this technical section, much of it will be amateur experienced based, so any information is given in good faith and is not guaranteed as correct.
User avatar
TedTF85
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm
MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
Model of Car: 85th Anniversary LE
Location: Northern Ireland

Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by TedTF85 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:08 pm

2009 TF 85th Anniversary edition (new to me in last few days) - only one key and alarm fob (Pektron 3 button type) provided with car so far!

Would appreciate information on terms used and advice for the way forward, bearing in mind I live in Northern ireland and there are no F/TF specialist garages with programmers that I have found so far!

Is the metal tag attached to the key ring with a letter and 4 digits the "EKA", if so what is the purpose? I got a key cut at Timpsons which works in the locks, but of course does not disarm the alarm, we carry it as a safeguard against locking the one key and fob in the boot :o

I will of course pursue the suppying dealer in GB in order to try and retrieve the other key and fob from the previous owner (it is mentioned in recent invoices re new batteries).

There are several recommended car key/alarm re-programmers here, but I am reluctant to let them have a go as I have read several on-line horror stories of corrupted SCUs! Would appreciate info on likely cost if I do go down this route, as I will have to get it agreed with the dealer?

Will post a second enquiry re the "bleeping" non functioning reversing sensors!
MGCC Ulster Centre.

User avatar
ArntyR
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:37 am
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: 2010 TF135 Style
Location: West Sussex

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by ArntyR » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:50 pm

Hi TedTF85.

New Pektrons only can be reprogrammed either d-i-y with PScan (there must be someone near you with one?) or Technozen in UK (google his site...)

I'm pretty sure metal tag is lock number (but it'd be cheaper to have the original key copied). Unlike Rover TFs, SAIC/Chinese TFs don't have a working EKA system - nor is it mentioned in your handbook.

Good idea about the spare key...

Can't help with rev sensors + haven't seen any posts about them either...

Enjoy + pics when you can...:)

User avatar
TedTF85
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm
MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
Model of Car: 85th Anniversary LE
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by TedTF85 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:09 pm

Thanks for info. Yes - I had the one key that I have copied by Timpsons for the "safety" spare.

Not a lot of Fs/TFs in the MGCC here and probably owners have not registered with the F Register. A few in the MGOC NI group, oops, am I allowed to mention them! Will try and encourage other MGCC Ulster Centre F/TF owners to register.
MGCC Ulster Centre.

User avatar
ArntyR
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:37 am
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: 2010 TF135 Style
Location: West Sussex

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by ArntyR » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:32 pm

At risk of teaching Granny...etc I'd urge you to send your scu to Technozen for him to upgrade the notoriously weak scu relays - one of which controls c/locking. I've already had mine done and I reckon yours will be 'ready'. He can program a new remote for you at the same time.

Also (please) make sure your driver door lock is well-lubed and 'easy'. I discovered mine had seized (predominantly fob use) and w/out EKA things could get really messy...

My passenger door 'double-locked' itself on a previous TF; believe me it got stressy solving that! I didn't know about those relays then :(

User avatar
TedTF85
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm
MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
Model of Car: 85th Anniversary LE
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by TedTF85 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:22 pm

Hm, will consider this once I've sorted out what the dealer should be responsible for. One of the things I have noticed is that there seems to be no difference to the arming when the fob is pressed once - it super locks as described by the handbook, except the description in the handbook appears to be incorrect as it states to press once for both methods of locking. With the hood down I use the door key so that the volumetric system is not activated, I hope!
MGCC Ulster Centre.

User avatar
ArntyR
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:37 am
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: 2010 TF135 Style
Location: West Sussex

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by ArntyR » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:50 pm

Yes the owner manual is really vague, inferring a lock then another lock with another push (MGFs did this, I think) Nope; one superlock...

Abs right about the door key. With mine if I unlock it with the key the pass door button stays down and the alarm will go off unless I turn the ignition on sharpish. So I avoid it.

User avatar
markvrs
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:31 pm
MGF Register Region: East Anglia

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by markvrs » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:31 pm

Hi TedTF85,

I concur with ArntyR that Technozen is the place to go. Can replace relays in SCU that seems a case of when, not if, they will fail. At the same time he can configure the SCU the way you wish, Superlocking on or off, Speed activated locking, One shot drivers window etc. About £50 ish . He can also programme fobs etc. His site is worth a look. Have used and recommend.

Not wishing to be scaremongering, but if you have a fob/scu relay issue and car is superlocked you may have a right pain in the ar$$ getting in the car as some on the forums have found out.

https://www.technozen-electronics.co.uk

Cheers,

User avatar
TedTF85
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm
MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
Model of Car: 85th Anniversary LE
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by TedTF85 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:59 pm

Thanks for all the replies and advice. Going away to have a big think! Cannot raise anyone local so far, although given a number this afternoon of a recommended programmer. I really do not fancy removing the SCU. It is the dealer's responsibility to provide another key and fob, but we are now an Irish Sea apart, so unless he finds the original, I will still have to organise the programming of another fob:(

,
MGCC Ulster Centre.

User avatar
TedTF85
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm
MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
Model of Car: 85th Anniversary LE
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Key and alarm fob info please? - update: sorted!

Post by TedTF85 » Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:42 pm

Just an update on my search for a new alarm fob and getting it programmed. After reading several posts and having no joy with a local programmer who kept fobbing (pun probably intended!) me off with talk of long delays in getting a fob to program, I contacted Paul Brown of Technozen. He talked me through the process, I removed the SCU and sent it to him with the existing fob. It came back a couple of days later with a newly programmed fob and new relays - a recommended replacement. I replaced the SCU, re-connected the battery and switched on - all well and working as programmed: dribble wipe, one touch driver's window lowering etc. Only one snag - I had asked him to re-program the unit to a one press non-deadlock with a double press deadlocking action. This worked a couple of times before reverting to the one press deadlocking situation with three flashes of the indicators instead of one! I can live with this. I did contact him to tell him the tale, but with no reply. I can recommend Technozen to anyone having difficulty with the Pektron SCU and its associated electronics, the turnaround time may have been only one day if I had not had the new relays fitted. PS: the dealer that I bought the car from came up trumps and as agreed refunded the portion of the bill for the alarm fob and programming - well done and thanks David of Church Square Autos.
MGCC Ulster Centre.

User avatar
ArntyR
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:37 am
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: 2010 TF135 Style
Location: West Sussex

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by ArntyR » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:04 pm

Hi TedTF85.

That's a great result then and you must be relieved to know that the prospect of being locked out will be substantially reduced :D

It sounds like your car's locking ok. I've just checked mine with the fob:-

lock - 1 flash, 2 clonks then 3 flashes
unlock - 1 flash then 1 clonk

I'm actually not surprised that yours actually didn't like the one press/no deadlock 'request' even though it it's a brill idea further guaranteeing that the pesky deadlock will never be able to lock you out. (There are a number of Chinese/SAIC TF differences and this one baffles!)

I can't understand why MGRover even considered this - BUT there's a further complication in the life of SAIC TF owners because it seems they changed the (imo) crazy + 'established' MGRover automatic lock/deadlock system with some sort of security 'improvement' that only they seem to know about. (I think that F non-Pektrons had a one press lock that further deadlocked with a second press IF you actually wanted, but TF Pektrons did the lock then deadlock/double-lock process automatically for some reason known only to someone without access to a brain, it seems...)

The upshot is that nobody with a SAIC TF, it seems, has been able to make their EKA code work and may have to physically break into their car if the scu fails. The SAIC scu (exactly the same part that the MGRover is blessed with) readily gives gives up the code if you read it with a Pscan - but the SAIC door locks and actuators don't seem to follow the MGR route and the alarm sounds incessantly when you try to use this 'emergency' key code to unlock. (I seem to recall that there's a different alarm box, too, that can't be switched off merely by disconnecting the battery like the MGRs.) Having said that, fair-do's; the handbook doesn't claim that there's an EKA code - it just seems that someone's pulled the plug on something, slammed the door, turned right and got lost on the way home :o

I've spoken to Pscan and he seems baffled too...we've downloaded shared and compared door lock switching data but SAIC TF is very different and...no joy...

Imo this is a very important safeguard against getting locked out. (Perhaps if your haven't owned an MGR previous to the SAIC you'll be blissfully unaware of the probem tho'...)

I think markvrs' 'scaremongering' is well-advised...I reckon SAIC-ers need to replace fob batteries every 2 years max and 'Technozen' scu relays no later than every 10 years, in order to sleep at night :?

User avatar
Rob Bell
Committee Member
Posts: 14425
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:36 pm
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: MGF 1.8i + MGF Shed!

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by Rob Bell » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:24 pm

Paul is a legend with the Pektron. What the community would do without his services I do not know!

I am happy with the nice, reliable LUCAS wiring and 5AS which seems pretty much bomb proof :D

That said, the Pektron does offer more options and convenience features - therefore, once you have more reliable relays, that could be the best option! :D

User avatar
ArntyR
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:37 am
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: 2010 TF135 Style
Location: West Sussex

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by ArntyR » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:35 pm

ps TedTF85 you have a 3-button remote/fob like all SAICS.

I've found that some (early) LE500's don't have 'boot release' despite having the button on the fob.

Mine is the less-well-specc'd TF 'Style', which does have key fob boot release. Does your TF85th have one?

I'm still trying to identify more of these SAIC differences - even after 3 years of ownership ;)

ps (smug) one thing I have 'sussed' tho' is changing the 'iffy' ecu to MGR (no it still doesn't EKA...) and replacing the restrictive precat/manivertor with an MGR manifold + heat shield; more responsive, easier to drive, less low speed juddering, more economical and smoother, I've found... ;)
Last edited by ArntyR on Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ArntyR
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:37 am
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: 2010 TF135 Style
Location: West Sussex

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by ArntyR » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:48 pm

Rob, totally agree about Paul's excellent services! He's helped me out quite a few times...

(respectfully) Blow more Pektron options + convenience features - SAIC owners don't have an EKA code!!! :o

I'd bite yer arm off if you offered me your Lucas system with EKA and manual press lock/press double lock :D - at least I wouldn't have to break in if the scu relays went awol... :?

User avatar
TedTF85
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm
MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
Model of Car: 85th Anniversary LE
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by TedTF85 » Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:57 pm

Hi all - yes the fobs do have three buttons with one being the separate boot release, quite handy, but that's what makes it easy to forget, put the key ring and fob in the boot while loading/unloading and close the boot lid :o .

The car has a hard top, which was not standard on the 85th, but may have been an option as it is painted in Pearlescent Ice White to match the car and has matching stripes - anyway, with the cold snap of late, it is in place as of yesterday. Makes quite a difference to the sound level, but is not as well ventilated, so thank goodness the demister is good and the heating element works well in the rear window.

Having done a few miles now, I plan to get under the car sometime to double check the suspension - on a smooth road, even our unclassifiied rural roads, it rides and handles very well, with the car basically going where it's pointed - But, hit a "pothole" or imperfection in the tarmac, of which there are many and increasing all the time, the suspension "crashes" badly. I once drove a pre 2005 car and it sounds and feels as bad as that over rough tarmac. The tyres are good and the pressures as defined in the handbook for the 85th - 2.0 bar F and 2.5 R

PS - do the seats have any quick way of tilting the backs forward? It's a pain having to wind the recliner knobs and then having to reset them after.
MGCC Ulster Centre.

User avatar
nigelandjo
Committee Member & Regional Rep
Posts: 4917
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:44 pm
MGF Register Region: Somerset & Dorset
Model of Car: TF85th,TF135,Trophy
Location: Berrow
Contact:

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by nigelandjo » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:06 pm

No quick seat tilt mechanism ~ you have to wind it forward and then back again.
Nigel May
Somerset & Dorset Regional Rep, Membership Secretary, Registrar & Archivist
Email: somerset.dorset@mgfregister.org
members@mgfregister.org

MGCC Members register here: https://mgfregister.org/?page_id=319

User avatar
ArntyR
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:37 am
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: 2010 TF135 Style
Location: West Sussex

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by ArntyR » Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:11 pm

So the LE500s were first SAIC TFs on the scene, then, and perhaps the earliest builds didn't have a boot release. I've heard that some of them were sold with MGRover handbooks...making me think that a few 'bits' might have been forgotten in the rush...Any other LEs w/out boot release, I wonder?

Hmm...your suspension should be Bilstein dampers + thicker a/r/bar with standard springs (possibly soft rides?) - thought to be the very best combination. (nigelandjo will confirm...)

I've already changed my own front springs + dampers because they had become a bit saggy and lower. The expensive, quality Bilsteins should be good, so I reckon if yours is lower at the front and 'crashy' then these springs could be the problem.

The back springs are heavier duty so they shouldn't get saggy...

User avatar
TedTF85
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm
MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
Model of Car: 85th Anniversary LE
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Key and alarm fob info please? - more

Post by TedTF85 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:37 am

Thanks for the seat info Nigel - the digital repair manual refers to "tilt the seats forward"! I was reading this when looking at the complicated instructions for adjusting the side window alignment with hood and hard top.

My car has reasonably low mileage, so would be surprised if the springs are shot, fresh MOT when I bought it as well, though I do not know how they or the dampers are tested in GB - we have individual four wheel vibrator pads connected to a computer readout for the dampers, in our NI MOT Agency testing centres, so no subjective assessment allowed. The car does sit lower at the front, definite rake fore & aft - so that will be my first point of call as "ArntyR" suggests. Have found several references to ride height spec on the various models, but none tell me where to measure it, is it hub centre to wheel arch?
MGCC Ulster Centre.

User avatar
TedTF85
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm
MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
Model of Car: 85th Anniversary LE
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by TedTF85 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:43 am

Have found reference to ride height - it is hub centre to wheel arch. Have seen a spec for 85th of 348 mm F & R, but different for other models.
MGCC Ulster Centre.

User avatar
TedTF85
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:31 pm
MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
Model of Car: 85th Anniversary LE
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Key and alarm fob info please? - suspension

Post by TedTF85 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:46 am

Should have looked at my Roger Parker book! He states the 85th model ride heights are 348 F & 343 R - any advance?
MGCC Ulster Centre.

User avatar
ArntyR
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:37 am
MGF Register Region: South East
Model of Car: 2010 TF135 Style
Location: West Sussex

Re: Key and alarm fob info please?

Post by ArntyR » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:20 am

Hi again TedTF85. Honestly I'm far from being a pessimist, but nothing new surprises me about these SAICs and your ride height info shows a typical variation with info :) I have Roger's book and I think his T/TF understanding is 'top notch'.

Re springs: I replaced my front standard soft green spring coilovers at just under 19 000ml in April '19. We could both be suffering from a bad batch, I wonder? Your dampers and arb are of undisputed quality; the springs are down to SAIC :D...I'm not sure if your fronts are greens tho'. I've seen variations on this info but I understand the thicker arb was designed to counter body-roll from softer fronts, so they may be. (Other TF spring colours are red, blue and yellow. Mine has the typical yellow rear and front green soft ride previous MGR combo.)

(SAIC owners generally seem to be a bit less responsive and I tend to feel a bit 'shouty' and 'needy' when I try to tug sleeves for info on these forums :?)

ps yes I'd expect the front spring ride value to be higher; the rear damper top mounts seem to start from lower down.

Post Reply