Smoke INSIDE the MK1 mgf

[Leeaw85]

Now have the car up and running again following previous fuel pump/ignition coil failure.

However...I now get some white smoke inside the car, from either the centre console or centre tunnel.

I have disconnected a lot of fuses: ciggy lighter, radio, blower fan, passenger and driver window and SRS. Also pulled the leads out the back of the window switches and the air flow rate and direction leads.

Driving this morning I still had small puffs of smoke after about 5 mins of driving. At this point I realised that the temperature knob was in the middle heat setting. Turned it down to full cold and the smoke seems to have stopped for now.

So the smoke seemed to take a few minutes of car on before it appeared, and comes out of ciggy lighter, ashtray, cubby hole and around dash.

Reading round the forum, a lot of speak is made of the heater resistor pack - however, I have pulled the fuses under the steering wheel for this so it "shouldn't" be here. It stopped when I put it on cold air.

Any clues or thoughts as to what this could be? I'm a little stumped in diagnostics

And I say smoke, it's not an Indian Smoke Signal size plume. More like the amount of someone's first puff on a vape and barely noticeable in direct sun

[Reckless Rat]

The heater resistor pack isn't to adjust the temperature - it is to allow the various fan speeds for the motor. Are any of the fan speeds non-operational? Does the heater fan still run when it's smoking?

The resistor pack is accessible from the passenger side footwell - it's on the LHS of the heater motor assembly. I think you have to remove the centre console trim panel and the glove box to get at it.

Are you absolutely sure it's smoke and not steam? Perhaps there's a coolant leak on the heater circuit...

[Leeaw85]

A coolant leak would make more sense - as it explains why turning the temperature down stopped the "smoke".

I should add, by the time I turned the temperature down, all those fuses were removed and cables disconnected at the switches / knobs. Hence my utter confusion as to possible cause - the only lead not disconnected is the rectangular one that clips in on the temperature knob.

I had the car running for 10 mins smoke free yesterday, turned the temp up to mid point for less than a min and back down to cold again. Sure enough, there was a little wisp of "smoke".

Any thoughts on where this coolant could be leaking? I'm guessing it's a strip the hole centre unit out to access pipe work and feel where it's wet/pipe split etc

Thanks for the tip Reckless Rat

[Reckless Rat]

No worries and you're welcome. I don't envy you the task. I think Rover started with the heater matrix and build the whole car around it. Patience, dear boy! Being a lazy bugger I would just blank off the two heater pipes at the engine and wear extra clothes... good luck.

[Leeaw85]

As we head into warmer weather (hopefully) it's not a pressing concern - I can at least put all the electrics back in and on now!!

This defo feels like a summer job for me haha

[EllsoJo]

Leeaw85 said:
"Any thoughts on where this coolant could be leaking? I'm guessing it's a strip the hole centre unit out to access pipe work and feel where it's wet/pipe split etc"

In fact it is easy to get access to the middle section of the 2 pipes. If you raise the armrest and tie it back with masking tape or whatever, you can prise out the large box which makes the cubbyhole underneath. I think careful levering of the front edge until a thin steel scraper could be inserted, then prise the back end out and lift out, worked in my case. A mirror on stick and torch lying next to handbrake cables should allow you to see what is going on. The photo I took when adjusting my handbrake cables is below:

One of the two grey/black heater pipes is near the bottom of the pic.

Good luck!

[Leeaw85]

Hopefully the picture has attached.

Managed to strip out the centre tunnel/dash - didn't actually take too long approx 25 mins I think. What helped us this is not a pristine brand new car.

Halfway down the tunnel there is discolouration of the black pipe with the black crumbling off in places.

More concerning is that underneath the SRS, well it's practically all orange including the metal body!!

Now my question is, what size are these pipes? ID and OD would be awesome, and then I can get on and order some replacements (may as well do both pipes) I can hope it's just a spring clamp coming loose but I'm never that lucky.

Thank you as always

[EllsoJo]

To answer your question regarding pipe sizes, the following picture (pinched from another owner's forum, courtesy a Canadian who identifies as "mowog73":

Pipe part numbers and Sizes

He also commented:
"If you are planning to replace all the hoses, I had a difficult time getting hose JHB100460. I order two JHB100450 and two of JHB100460. What I received was one JHB100450 and three JHB100460. I called and told the person at Rimmer about the mix up and the immediately sent me out a replacement and two weeks later I received another JHB100460. This happened twice more. The pictures of there two hoses on Rimmer's website are correct and comparing the pictures it is clear that the two hoses are different.

I ordered JHB100450 from Brown and Gammons and received what is actually JHB100460 from them, they have the hoses miss-identified, so I ordered JHB100460 and received JHB100450. When I received the wrong hose from B&G, I looked at the pictures of the hoses on their website and they are mixed up, part number JHB100460 actually shows JHB100450 and visa-versa.

I've attached a coolant hose and pipe drawing that I developed because I found errors in the drawing in the workshop manual and to help me keep it straight which hose connected to while hose/pipe/engine port. I'm glad I had a second car to look at when I did this job.

Hope this is of some use. It occurs to me that domestic plastic pipework, (Brand-names are "Speedfit" or (I think) HepO2), which is relatively easy to bend to the required shape IN-SITU might be easier to install than the official, expensive pipes.

[Leeaw85]

Excellent, thank you!!

I found a similar picture but it didn't have the ID or OD tag just the sizes, so I would want 16, 17 and 19 by that picture then.

I like this forum, I've reached out a couple of times and always had great replies, so thank you all again

[EllsoJo]

Yes, PERHAPS the pipes you need are labelled 16,17 and 19 on that picture, BUT as mowog73 tells us, he had trouble getting the correct item 17 part No. JHB100460, so you might be better off using a standard piece of straight rubber hose from your local auto factors, plus some plastic or copper pipe bent to reproduce the bends and straight sections of item 17. I would also consider replacing items 25 & 26, as I suspect these are the bits of hose close to the exhaust downpipe, thus getting extra heat stress. The picture below is the appropriate area of my car, which is a 2002 TF, so may differ slightly from your F:

Heater pipes from engine

Given that the pipes to or from your heater have (presumably) corroded from the INSIDE, you should also consider replacing the main pipes to the radiator, these get road-salt corrosion from the outside, as well as suffering corrosion from the inside by exactly the same "coolant" as your heater pipes have suffered from. A low coolant alarm is a also good insurance/ early warning system. I fitted one for the princely sum of £33! installation was quite easy. P.M. me if you want details. I am based on the N.E. side of Honiton, near the Somerset border. I see you are a South-West Member, so if you want to see what I have done to my TF, or need help, let me know.

[Leeaw85]

I am Dorset, which is south coast and there appears to be 2 regions that cover this - but hi!!

There's a great shop near me that specialises in hoses predominantly aimed at the hydraulic/pneumatic market. 3 metres of hose for £12 and an extra 6 for a few jubilee/worm clamps.

I will investigate the undercar ones at the same time, and in the bay too, I'm going with reactive rather than preventative at the moment to keep running costs down (I average 120 miles a month in her) and are doing things that are currently defo broken.

Speaking of which, also have to do the aux belt as I have seen it isn't looking great. That should turn up by Wednesday

Thanks for your picture, appears mine hasn't loaded ( off the FAQs I go )

[mowog73]

Hi, Mark here (aka mowog73) in Canada, eh,

Interesting that this is the 4th or 5th person I have heard of in the past couple of months that has had leaks of the pipes and/or hoses associated with the heater.

When I replaced the heater pipes in my wife's F a couple months ago, I found the ends of the pipes to be very corroded, significant of pipe metal loss. Just this past weekend I replaced the pipes in my F and the two pipe ends were also well corroded.

I mentioned about a problem obtaining the heater valve's inlet and outlet hoses, JHB100450 and JHB100460. With Roverlike's help, I have confirmed that Rimmer and XParts do have the hoses mislabeled, whereas B&G have them labeled correctly. That being said, both hoses have significant moulded bends and I think using straight hose would put significant strain on the heater valve.

The attached coolant hoses drawing shows JHB100450 and JHB100460 placed and labelled correctly.

[RobboMC]

I would also consider replacing items 25 & 26, as I suspect these are the bits of hose close to the exhaust downpipe, thus getting extra heat stress.

From my view of the engine bay it appears that the connections between the pipes and hoses 25 & 26 are impossible to access. From another thread on here I am informed that the only real way to change the pipes is to disconnect 25 & 26 from the engine side and remove 16, 25 & 26 as an assembly.
Having done that it would be silly to put the original 25 & 26 hoses back into the car.

[mowog73]

RobboMC is right, the connection between the heater pipes and hoses 25 & 26 can only be accessed by removing the heater pipes, which means stripping out a lot of the interior. The heater pipes come up past and clear the centre vents. At this point you now have to removed hoses 25 & 26 from the heater pipes and then you can remove the pipe from the interior. I'll bet you dimes to doughnuts that the ends of the pipes are highly corroded, with significant metal loss.

You have to strip out the same amount of the interior to get the pipes out as you would to replace hoses 17, 19, and 20, so you might as well replace those hoses as well.