MGF offroad for 3 years will not start

[MGF1]

Hi our MGF VVC 2002 32k miles was offroad for the last 2-3 year, now it has a new battery but won't start. I got a new head gasket about 6 years ago.
Tried to start many times then connected jump leads from a BMW 330D - but after many attempts (then using the throttle in the BMW) the battery then started to smell and the engine wouldn't even attemp to start again but made a drowsy noise...
I tried to attached two videos but I got a message stating that there was an error ("Invalid file extension: 33879362-7fab-46f5-8755-9f556e13caa8.MP4)
Any help most appreciated.
Many thanks, John
07714845988
P.S.
Surbiton, Surrey

[EllsoJo]

John, you said "the engine wouldn't even attemp to start again but made a drowsy noise..." do you mean that the engine would no longer crank over?

Did all the appropriate warning lights come on when the ignition was FIRST turned on with the new battery?

Do any lights come up now?

If the new battery has "started to smell" I suspect that you have fried the battery by draining it with "many attempts" followed by re-charging it way too fast from the Over-generous output of the much bigger battery + fast turning alternator on the BMW diesel.

When you first connected the new battery, did you hear the fuel pump "whirr" for (about) 10 seconds. If NOT then it has failed/gummed-up while the F was "offroad for the last 2 - 3 years"

My other thought is that whenever I re-connect the battery on my 2002 - built TF , It is necessary to blip the key fobs 3 or 4 times next to the door, to re-synchronise the fob to the security system/engine immobiliser. I think your F shares the same Lucas 5AS, Alarm/central locking system.

I have never attempted to start my TF after a battery change WITHOUT doing this re-synch., so I cannot be sure this is your problem, but worth a try.

[RobboMC]

Never try and 'force' a K-series engine to start, either by repeated cranking or jump starting ( unless you're sure it's a flat battery )

These little beauties start in 1-2 seconds.

Since it won't fire I would be checking the ignition system.
Also, as a thought from left field, check the fuel cut-out switch
and the wire to the crank sensor.

[RobboMC]

How old is the fuel?

After a 3 year break you should get as much fuel out of the tank as you can ( easier said than done! ) and put in 2-3 gallons of fresh 98 octane.

[MGF1]

Many thanks for the replies, sorry didn't get back until now.

The battery seems fine, I've attached a picture with a voltmeter should 12v.

I've also attached a video a few seconds long showing that happens when I turn the key in the ignition, some of the lights go on but no cranking etc.
No smoke or smells either, for that matter!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xr7fkj ... beqRY/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y9rt8I ... v33K2/view

Not sure how to do the other checks or empty the fuel tank (might give the kids a straw), but will look it all up...

Thanks,
John

[Charless]

I couldn't download the video but from your description I wonder if the smaller terminal on the starter has corroded so that the starter motor is not seeing the 12v when you turn the key. If this is the case you can access the starter motor through the boot grill and remove the spade connector to clean it and its terminal. Sometimes just a sharp tap on the starter body with a stick is sufficient.

[Geoff.F]

Did you leave the car outside or garage it ??. Probably outside as your video is showing obvious electrical problems due to dampness.
Ignition should give you the fuel level but the indicator appears not move
I would expect 13 plus volts from a good quality fully charged battery. Battery voltage needs to be checked from the harness to show any loss with dirty clamps both static and starting.
I assume that you are opening the doors with the Fob thereby turning the immobiliser off.
Geoff F

[MGF1]

Thanks all - tried again this weekend, and there is some progress - it is back to 'cranking' as it was doing before I tried 'jump starting'.

Here are the latest videos showing the boot and dashboard as I tried to start the car:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hrPJbU ... share_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12TWYtx ... share_link

I did have fob problems initially but those went away when I followed the procedures so don't havwe any issue with the immobiliser

The car has been outside all the time and the fuel is 3 years old. The indicator worked when I first tried on ~April 5th and the fuel tank was not empty.
I'm reluctant to try to empty it just yet as it looks a bit difficult. No idea why the fuel indicator is not working now.

Not sure why it is now cranking again. I did check all the fuses and they are fine. Maybe because the weather is a bit warmer. I think the suggestion now is that there might be an issue with the electrics near the starter motor? I gave the starter motor a few taps with a pliers but no luck. Have not tried removing the spade connector yet, just thought I'd send an update first.
Cheers,
John

[RobboMC]

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca ... 18008.html


I have one of these to empty a Zafira gearbox with no drain plug

The more fuel you can get out the better, otherwise just add 20 litres of fresh 98 octane.

From the video it doesn't look like a fuel issue though, sounds to me like there's not enough power in the battery
so the ECU is refusing to send power to the starter.

[MGF1]

Hi All - a little bit of good news! just a little but important nevertheless.

I had an email from Mr C in the forum who convinced me to look at the battery again (luckily, as I thought it was fully charged), so I took it inside and charged it with an 'Ultimate Speed' charger we have (see links below), not sure how long it took but the next day the 'fully charged' light appeared.

Now the engine is trying to turn over! but fails, really struggling. Not sure what to try next as I ssupect if I try too much the battery will suffer. There was a bit of smoke coming out near the engine area which may have stopped now.

So thank you EllsoJo, RobboMC, Geoff F, and Mr C - noting I have not yet acted on all the suggestions.

I think the fuel tank was 25% full of 3 year old unleaded petrol and I poured in about 2 litres of premium unleaded a week ago, as I am hoping to avoid the task of emptying the tank which might be quite awkward.

Any suggestion for the next step? I'm going at this hopefully slowly but surely - my aim is to get it moving at least and possibly an MOT.

My son is almost old enough to have a driving lesson. ULEZ is on the way. etc etc.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v-oOjG ... p=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v0oHSa ... p=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v6Qgbx ... share_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vAkyK3 ... share_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vAzlmM ... share_link

Many thanks,

John

[MGF1]

p.s. thank you all for being so helpful and not suggesting I was very stupid to let this happen to our MGF!

[cbjroms]

That engine is turning-over far too slowly. Smoke coming from the engine area suggests that the earth connection to the starter motor is nowhere near as good as it needs to be. Or (less likely in my view) there is a problem with the starter motor. Cant see it is anything to do with either fuel or immobiliser as the engine isnt being spun fast enough to do anything!

My advice would be to use a jump lead to earth the starter motor to something substantial on the body (the earth connects starter motor terminal to body) and see if this makes a difference. If it does then you have isolated the problem.

[Rob Bell]

Do you know the condition of the engine? It may be a good idea to take out the spark plugs and take a borescope to have a look inside the cylinders and particularly the liner walls and the condition of the piston tops.

If the engine is not turning over then either the starter is not working as it should or the engine is partially seized. I would attempt to turn the engine over by hand to get a feel as to how difficult it is to turn it over. Easier to turn with the spark plugs out!

[RobboMC]

That engine is turning-over far too slowly. Smoke coming from the engine area suggests that the earth connection to the starter motor is nowhere near as good as it needs to be. Or (less likely in my view) there is a problem with the starter motor. Cant see it is anything to do with either fuel or immobiliser as the engine isnt being spun fast enough to do anything!

My advice would be to use a jump lead to earth the starter motor to something substantial on the body (the earth connects starter motor terminal to body) and see if this makes a difference. If it does then you have isolated the problem.

I had this problem when my car first arrived many years ago. It had also been sitting for a few years.

The starter current needs to have a complete circuit.

I started at the positive terminal of the battery, removed, cleaned and replaced the connections all the way to the starter motor,
then continue along the Earth path ALL THE WAY back to and including the negative battery terminal.

There's a cable from the bottom of the gearbox to the boot wall, and of course another from the body to the negative side of the battery.
Any or all of these connections could cause this issue.

[jonaf]

Check if the alternator is stuck. The stator corrodes when stored in not completely dry conditions and eventually locks the rotor. The smoke may come from the alternator belt rubbing on the pulley that does not rotate.

[MGF1]

Thanks Jonaf, RobboMC, Rob Bell

Apologies for not providing an update - Mr C suggested a 24hr+ charge based on my charging device, which I did over a week ago but I think the situation might be as you describe - unfortunately it led to smoke everywhere (which we already saw a bit before) and the Earth lead melting:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13zvay1 ... share_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SGv7vU ... share_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PFjP8F ... share_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iOHHxW ... share_link

So probably Mr C is right now suggesting I stop trying and enlist the help of an MGF mobile mechanic.

I'm worried if I try too much it might lead to the car going on fire or worse exploding and destroying the neighbourhood!

As I'm waiting for a new work contract which might be imminent now (phew), I was wondering if this is the best route, and if anyone can recommend anyone in our area Surbiton Surrey? a lead for someone who might not cost the Earth (sic)? Or should I try something else first to spark this aging beauty back into life so that she is ready for June when my son turns 16 as he is eager to start his career as a boy racer?

Many thanks,
John

[Rob Bell]

Any updates John?

[MGF1]

Hi Rob - sorry for the huge delay. Shortly after my last post we had a local mobile mechanic come to us, £40. They thought there was a short circuit near the starter motor but in any case they said it would need to be taken to a garage and the engine dropped to investigate. They also suggested selling the car by parts as that would raise a lot more. We also called a local mechanic who was away for quite a while but said the risk of him having to take it into his garage for perhaps quite a while (maybe more than a month) was too much.
Now we don't know what to do. Maybe I'll pop it onto eBay.
What a shame as I wanted my now 16 year old son to learn gears in the MFG (VVC). It was working fine in 2020.
Conclusion - might pop it on to eBay...
If anyone has a better suggestion we are all ears!
Cheers
John

[MGF1]

we'll advertise it on ebay hopefully tomorrow. I think we will accept an offer in 9 days..

[RobboMC]

They thought there was a short circuit near the starter motor but in any case they said it would need to be taken to a garage and the engine dropped to investigate.

I know I'm a long way away but dropping the engine to investigate a starting issue seems a bit of overkill.

To investigate if it's the starter motor I would firstly turn the engine by hand ( with a 22 mm socket on the crank pulley )

While Rob suggests removing the spark plugs first, turning it with the spark plugs in will give you a feeling for the compression.
Assuming it turns 4-5 rotations OK I would charge the battery up and then try and jump start it.

If it jump starts and runs then you have a dead starter motor.

( or it could just be the cable running to the starter motor is earthing )