Water Leak on MGF

[hilly]

Hi All,
I just picked up a 96 VVC MGF from a dealer at a real knocked down price off the back of it having intermitant faults of the Indicators, and the ABS light comming on, and also requiring one roof catch.

I was convinced there would be more wrong and I reckon I'm right!!

It had its head gasket done nearly 20K ago, and it's now done 64K in total so I fealt that bit was fairly sound, but it's dropping water on the floor..... like......... the header tank full, approx 1ltr in about an hour, just stood still.

I reckon it's the water pump as I've only looked in the dark and rain, although there is some dampness on the block by the pump, I'm thinking it's not likely to be a cracked block as it comes out so fast, and the 60 or so miles I've driven it today, it's never got over half way on the temp guage and never jumped up or down on the guage, and the heaters worked fine!

It had coolant on the floor when I picked it up, but he said it was spilt from all the levels being done before I arrived!!!

In fact, it drives and runs really well!!!

No white, googhy, or sludgy oil either.

So, my question is a simple one ( I hope!)

How much should I expect to pay to get the water pump done?

I reckon I'd get another timing belt fitted at the same time, so how much to include that?

Should I get the Thermostat done at the same time?

Should I also get the Tensioner changed?

I was originally a mechanic in the 80's but can only work on my drive, so is it an arse to do at home?

Thanks in advance for your help guys, this is my first post!!

Dave.

[Rob Bell]

Hi Dave,

Welcome aboard!

Getting down to the simple question. As you know, it gets a little expensive to get someone else to do this for you - but sometimes this is the best way when you have to work and have no time!!! I'm not sure how much it'll cost you - it depends on labour rates, but I would reckon on them charging you around 4 hours work (because they'll more than likely drop the subframe). I would think that the belt/tensioner/pump change itself will take just an hour.

The water pump itself is only about 28 quid. I'd definitely replace the cam belt and tensioner at the same time - you can't be 100% confident about the servicing in the past, so worth the peace of mind (unless, of course, the bills for the HGF replacement show clearly the cost of a new cambelt etc).

Personally, unless there are any signs of the thermostat malfunctioning, I'd leave this well alone. Some however would recommend fitting either a lower-temperature thermostat, or even replacing half the cooling circuit in preference for a pressure relief thermostat as fitted to late model TFs. It all rather depends on the scope of your work. If a reasonably quick fix, don't touch it!

The job of replacing the belt, tensioner and water pump is a doddle if you have the engine and subframe out of the car (especially given your background Dave). I have heard of people replacing cam belts with the engine still in situ - so presumably everything can be tackled in the same way. It's a balance. If you don't have a great deal of space, and you want to avoid all the subframe mounting bolts shearing off (sod's law is that at least one will), then I'd go for the in-situ approach.

[hilly]

Hi Rob,

Big big thanks for your relpy buddy!!

I've been and seen a mate of mine who has a fanily business locally with his father and he reckons on 3 hours, pump & belt to be around £150 + VAT so I reckon that sounds reasonable. My only dissapointment is that I have to wait until next Thursday!!! But with a job like this, I think I'll feel happier someone else doing it as I don;t want the worry or 'Self Hassle' if it ain't right!!

I'm pretty sure he'll do it in situ from the top as he had another F in there and showed me. That and the fact he say's the tensioners aren't usually that much trouble does give me confidence. I may just ask him to do the tensioner in any case for peace of mind.

He is going to preasure teast it before he starts the job to be sure (Fingers Crossed!!!).

I've got the reciepts of the Head Gasket being done which does include belt as it was a belt snap which caused the whole problem. Valves & Guides too!!

That said, that was in 2006 and about 20k ago so I want this side of the car 'Belt n Braces'.

I've give it all a good de-grease, and wash off today so at least he'll have a clean car to work on!

Once I've got the car 100% safe and ready for the road without fear of letting me down, I'll go with it for the summer, but I might get either the Sub frames powder coated over the winter, or get some new ones and get them prepared in advance. Then start to get her all nice and restored!!!

Besides...... I've got to put my 'Mid Life Crisis' to some use!!!

When I drove the car I was well happy with the way it ran, and the temp guage and heater were sound, so I really hope all else is ok, and thanks for the advise on the Thermostat, I think that side of it can wait once I'm on the road fully.

Regards,

Dave.

[Rob Bell]

I'd certainly change the tensioner - they cost just pennies, and are known to fail (usually at high-mileages) - see Andrew's spectacular failure here: http://mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/common ... ailure.htm

Not sure what extra information you'll get by doing a pressure test to be honest - you already know you have a water leak. I'd expect an expection after removing the cambelt cover is likely to confirm (or refute!) your diagnosis of water pump failure - but the rate of loss is pretty dramatic, so I anticipate finding the leak is going to prove pretty easy

Hope you're back on the road soon! Quite a dramatic history your car has!!! That's quite a lot of work to recover the head. Still, I hope you can reap the rewards of all that work, and roll on summer!

[Reckless Rat]

You need access to the O/S of the engine both via the inspection hatch and the rear O/S wheel arch. Access is easier if you remove the alloy engine mounting in its entirety and then drop the engine on the hydraulic jack so you can better access the cam cover. It's not a hugely complicated operation, but can be costly in terms of knuckles. Treat yourself to a cam locking tool before you start to take the belt off, and read the manual regarding the timing marks, both on the cams themselves and on the crankcase/pulley.

You may find that the crankshaft pulley bolt won't let go unless you've got an air-gun - it's bloody tight.

Make sure you buy the correct belt and tensioner as they are different depending on model (mpi or VVC). Drain the cooling system before you start by undoing one of the hoses leading to the underfloor pipes. Change the alternator drive belt while you're at it. You have to take it off anyway.

Finally... and this is MOST important, refill the cooling system and bleed it properly. There are three bleed screws, on the radiator, on the heater matrix (under the bonnet) and on the engine pipework. Sometimes you have to raise the front of the car to get it all out. Run the car a bit and then bleed it again. Then keep checking.

If your car hasn't got one, invest in a low level alarm from B&G or elsewhere.

Don't forget that the VVC has a second camshaft drive belt on the N/S of the engine.

NEVER thrash the engine until it's properly warm - that means oil temp as well as water. Keep it below 3000rpm until the oil temp gauge starts to rise.

Given proper care and some TLC you should have years of fun. The early ones were the best made.

[Rob Bell]

Excellent advice!

I'd definitely invest in a K-series engine manual - it'll have all the information you'll need on this work, and various other jobs. It's nicely comprehensive.

One more thing regarding the cam belts, and this is for general interest for those searching the forum for the information relating to the MPi engine (not relevant for you Dave) - there is also a difference in width of the cambelt between manual tensioner and automatic tensioner engines - 23 versus 26mm - so make sure you order the correct one.

This link may be helpful in planning the work - albeit for an ELise: http://www.midlandslotus.co.uk/wiki/ind ... ith_photos

Paul's excellent tutorial on YouTube is worth a watch too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM5oA2X03z8

Good luck