Buying advice please

[rob76gt]

Car with failed bearing fell through however I saw a car locally today and seems to be OK save for a couple of issues, any advice appreciated.

1 small amount of rust behind the vertical seam beneath the door is this normal?
2 Wet carpets (underneath). The soft top looked reasonable and I think the car has been standing for a while. Explanation was that car was valeted however, it had smell of a longer term issue. Do they all leak a little?
Front wing leading edge was "proud" of the bumper seam but no dent (could this be poor repair)?

Regards

Rob

[Mark L]

1 small amount of rust behind the vertical seam beneath the door is this normal?
2 Wet carpets (underneath). The soft top looked reasonable and I think the car has been standing for a while. Explanation was that car was valeted however, it had smell of a longer term issue. Do they all leak a little?
Front wing leading edge was "proud" of the bumper seam but no dent (could this be poor repair)?

Regards

Rob

1: if the rust is behind the seam, ie on the rear quarter section then this is more likely a stone chip that's just been left untreated and allowed to fester - this lower sill section is quite exposed and the edge of the seam is always going to take the brunt of any road rash.

2: I doubt there's an MGF built that hasn't leaked water at some point in it's life, the usual suspect being the roof (or roof seals) unless the hood itself is holed then many leaky roofs can be fixed by simple adjustment of the hood clamps and window stops.

3: It can sometimes be a little hard to tell if a MGF/TF has had new panels due to the frankly shocking state of the panel fit and shut lines that some cars left the factory with, just check the usual inner wing and underfront area's for accident damage and if all looks Ok then these gaps can be adjusted with a little time and effort.

Good Luck.

[Rob Bell]

Not much to add to Mark's comments, although I would argue that panel fit from the factory is actually always been pretty satisfactory - and if it isn't good, then it does suggest previous repair work.

Also, while the seam under the door in the sill is a pretty common area to get stone chipping and therefore metal exposure, that there is rust here (it's usually just surface rust in the first instance), then it is a sign or uncaring ownership in the recent past.

Wet carpets can either mean poor window alignment (due to failed window stops - disappointingly common, particularly on earlier cars) or due to leaking weather seals around the heater air intake box (wet on the passenger side). A musty smell, as you suggest, is a sign of longer term leakage, and not a fresh valet designed to mask this!

A quick buying guide here: http://mgf.ultimatemg.com/group1/info/MGF_buying.htm

My impression is that this is quite an unloved car, and that there are more problems to uncover - so unless you're after a project car, walk away and find a better example

[Mark L]

Not much to add to Mark's comments, although I would argue that panel fit from the factory is actually always been pretty satisfactory - and if it isn't good, then it does suggest previous repair work.

You must have been pretty lucky then, Rob...

When you've looked at as many F/TF's as I have down the years with a view to purchase (either for me or other people) then you tend to notice these things a little more, TBH In the past I've even been suspicious of cars with Good panel fit and shut lines as having had body repairs as I doubt most body shops would send the cars out like MG-R did.

As an example how many F/TF's have you seen like this below, ie with the lower edge of the door sticking proud?



Worth noting that the above is No1 LE500 which is for sale at..... wait for it...... £25K!!!!...

Another example would be my old 160 which was standard and original when I bought it, yet I still had to spend a good day adjusting panel gaps and shut lines to something which I'd consider half decent...



Yet with a little work it can be sorted which goes to show MG-R QC left a little to be desired...



As said above, I wouldn't be to concerned if a F/TF I looked at had less than perfect panel gaps and shut lines, as you know these were pretty much hand built cars so quality did tend to vary throughout their production run.

[Rob Bell]

Well, I confess that the shut lines on my F are a bit of a mess on the front of the car - but a close encounter with the tyre wall at Silverstone at the MGCCSC Sprint is responsible for that But otherwise, as a 1995 build car, the panel gaps are generally pretty good - and certainly no problems with door alignment. No particular problems with Project Shed either - despite the panel dents and perforating rust...

May be you're right - I've been lucky. And I agree - a lot of these problems should have been sorted out as part of PDI - but I don't want dilute the general message here - which is to say that we're both probably right to a degree: the panel gaps should be even, yet minor irregularties may have been "built in" by Rover group/ MG Rover/ MG Motor - but the key here is the general impression: Beware scruffy cars, and particularly scruffy cars tarted up to within an inch of their lives to justify an excessive asking price...

[Mark L]

but the key here is the general impression: Beware scruffy cars, and particularly scruffy cars tarted up to within an inch of their lives to justify an excessive asking price...

Interestingly, I've just spent the last couple of months looking for a TF for a freind and it's frankly shocking the state some cars are presented for sale in. I'd say 80% of the cars we looked at had just clear water in the expansion bottle, many had the either the usual failed window regulator or door solonoid (or both) and one TF in particular had the common failed wiper mechanism held together with tie straps as well as having severe rot on EVERY panel!.

Add to the above, holed hoods - cracked windows - miss matched tyres - rotten coolant pipes and dipsticks full of mayo, and we almost gave up and looked at other marques.

The above F with a bit of rot on the sill and a leaky roof sounds like a brand new car compared to the scrap I've looked at!...

[Rob Bell]

That's frightening!

How can people think to sell cars in that condition? And how on earth can a TF be rotten already? Must be severe neglect...

Fortunately, there are plenty of cars out there - and they're not all bad...

Crumbs, I am beginning to think that Project Shed - as found - wasn't in bad nick!

[Mark L]

That's frightening!

How can people think to sell cars in that condition? And how on earth can a TF be rotten already? Must be severe neglect...

Fortunately, there are plenty of cars out there - and they're not all bad...

Crumbs, I am beginning to think that Project Shed - as found - wasn't in bad nick!

Must admit Rob, the TF mentioned was the worst I've seen for Rot - it had gone in the same places as a early 'F', ie around the side repeaters and front edge of wings, sills and boot lid - the worst though was around the rear arch lips which were nealy missing and replaced with filler (badly).

I'm thinking of writing a book based on my experiances in trying to source a F/TF from the classifieds, here's a few of the answers I've had from sellers down the years..........

Question: (me) Hi, I'm ringing about the MGF you have for sale, could you tell me which model it is please?.

Answer: (seller) Yes, it's the convertable one!..

Q: could you tell me if the HG has been changed or any cooling problems?

A: No overheating problems with this one M8 - it's the one with the Honda engine!.

Q: Has the cam belt been changed?

A: The WHAT Belt?

Q: Are there any leaks on the hood?

A: It did leak once when I took it through a car wash!.

And if I had a £1 for everytime time I've heard "I bought the car for my Wife but she failed her test so I've got to sell it" then I'd be driving a V12 Vantage by now!.

[Rob Bell]

That's interesting Mark - I am slowly compiling the MGF rot hot spots, as I think I need to up date the guying guide that says "MGFs don't rot" - when clearly they do! But down south, and particularly in the south east, MGFs don't - which is more a reflection of the climate than anything else.

The front wing always seems to rust out from the inside above the bumper mounts - it appears that moisture gets trapped where the panel is bent over, and there is over-lapping steel spot welded together.
The side repeaters seems to attract rust - I presume this is down to paint damage from the indicator units.
The sills rust over that seam - which is largely down to stone mediated paint damage.
The air intakes rust, seemingly in the same place to the rear of the apperature - more often on the nearside than offside in my experience, but it can certainly effect both sides.
Boot lids rust along the seam either side of the high level brake light. Was this the case with 'your' TF?

I haven't found much in the way of structural rust yet - but note Matt's recent experiences on his car, and evidence of rust effecting the floor pan in the rear corners adjacent to this area.

Subframes rot - I've found rotten front and rear subframes on Project Shed (not necessarily from the same car I hasten to add) - and of course, there is that other favourite rot area - the front lower wish bones.

So quite a lot to look for potentially!!!

BTW, the responses you've had are hysterical! Probably not unexpected though - I guess the vast majority of car owners are not car-literate!

Would definitely like to see you compile the 100 "best answers" to a car buyer's question!

[Bandit]

The condition & fit of the wheelarch liners can influence the lifespan of the sills, with the tyres throwing high-speed mud/water/grit/salt at the join between the lower lip of the liner and the front of the sill section there is a lot of variation from car to car as to how much of that is finding its way into the sills. None of mine have ever had the optional mud flaps, but I wouldn't mind betting that cars with them fitted from new will survive the MOT tester's tapping a lot longer than those without. Once moisture is inside the sill section the join below the door will provide the ideal place for it to sit, so I think in many cases the rust there has come from inside rather than external paint damage. The days of WaxOyling your sills are still very much with us...

[Reckless Rat]

I have a '97 MGF which has just under 90,000 miles on the clock and it's very clean for its age. I guess it hasn't been used much in inclement weather - it did live in the London area before it came to pastures further south. Now it only ever goes out when it's fine and the sun's shining (which is nearly every day).

There was a very small amount of surface rust on the sill/rear panel lower seams, which has been attended to and the whole of the floor pan & subframes has been sprayed with waxoyl. With a bit of luck it will last a few years more.

I will go along with the idea of removing the wheel arch liners and cleaning everything down with a high pressure spray. Damp mud/roadsalt is the worst thing you can have sitting in a vulnerable place on your car. Best to clean it all off, dry it out & then treat with waxoyl or similar (assuming there's no rust treatment necessary.)

[Rob Bell]

The area that does collect a lot of damp debris in the area of the liner and the foreward sill closure area was identified as a potential rust trap by MGF Register stalwart, Martin Woods, many years ago. The funny thing is that I haven't seen significant rot in this area - but there again, my geographical location may bias against this observation.

I agree about the presence of liners - they're critical - as indeed is the rubber trim on the return lip of the wheel arch - front and rear. When they're absent, this often suggests accident repair - and more over when missing makes the panel more vulnerable to stone chipping. Seen big rust in their absence.

Good point about the variability of stone chipping to the sills. I've had more stone chipping in this area since fitting the MG ULW alloys than with any of the 15 or 16" wheels that I've had on the same car combined. Largely I suspect this to be related to the increased offset of this wheel - so clearly wheel choice - and also tyre profiles (wider fronts could represent a greater threat to paintwork?) - could predict the presence or absence of rust.

[Rob Bell]

Oh, one other quick thing - has anyone noticed any association with paint colour? Different pigments/ paint types could have differing vulnerability to chipping and therefore to surface rust. I don't know about you, but I have seen more rusty silver cars than any other colour? Also the Amaranth cars have had more than their fair share of boot lid rot - but my sample sizes are small...

What have you guys noticed???

[Mark L]

The rotten TF I mentioned above Rob, was a 53 plate XPG with around 75K on the clock.....

Front edge of subframes and Lower suspender arms seem very prone to tin worm, my old TF was only 3.5 years old when this was taken....



Coolant pipes, as you know are another one, although how long they last seems to vary widely from year to year, the pic below is of Deanos TF at under 4 years old and it's pretty shocking how fast they've rotted through.



The other area, although not main bodywork, is the clutch release arm which rots and in the end seizes the clutch, plenty and often liberal coats of spray grease will help - more so if the cars spends any length of time laid up, unused.

[Rob Bell]

Nice (ugly!) picture of rotting coolant pipes there Mark

Subframes are definitely in a 1960s BMC time-warp when it comes to rust protection! They suffer from surface rust in next to no time. Usually surface rot - but can perforate through - I've got some pictures at home that I'll post here later...

[rob76gt]

THANKS to all that posted a reply.

In summary then:

They all leak
They all suffer from ill fitted panels
They all have HGF sometime in their life and
They all have rusty subframes

Why am I not put off yet?

[Rob Bell]

Well, not quite "all"

[rob76gt]

Well wish me luck I'm looking at another one this evening 5th time lucky?

Please everyone cross your fingers that there is no HG problems, waterpipes are good, subframes are sound. I know there is a hole in the hood but I am sure the MGF register could help with a replacement!!

[Rob Bell]

Hole in hood a good negotiating point - but replacements are readily available. And you might want one with a glass rear screen anyway

Good luck Rob!

[rob76gt]

Hole in hood, rust on front wing, split rear bumper, low suspension oh yeah and it wouldn't start

No HGF evidence though

I'll pass and wait for number 6