TF Tyres

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adrianclifford
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Re: TF Tyres

Post by adrianclifford » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:41 pm

From a technical point of view, I really can't answer except state the obvious : the way the car is set up on sub-frames etc (many others may know the real answer) but over at least ten years (I first came across this in 2005) the TF drives terrible unless it has the correct type of tyre and all round. Many combo's work well, several do not. They are happy on 15" and 16" so that's not an issue but even GSD2's and GSD3's cannot be fitted on the same TF (you can on an F funny enough). Strange, I would love to know how they are tested and conclusions made.

Having had four sets of Toyo's and been happy with every one I'll look at the Falken 914's at the next change because they are starting to mess around with compounds, or so it seems.

I'll have a chat with my local independent tyre fitter first, he really knows his stuff.
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Re: TF Tyres

Post by Fraser » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:13 pm

Thanks for response.
I just get a bit cross that this car seemingly can only run properly on only two makes of tyre, thus preventing any meaningful purchasing of tyres in an economic manner. I mean I can buy from a wide variety of tyre manufacturers for my XJ6 Jaguar without warnings of imminent doom if I fit the wrong ones ! There are many more tyre makers making the sizes needed, but apparently we must only fit Toyos or Falkens !!

I had a look on the internet, and for my rears, (215/40 ZR16) apart from the above, and the "verboten" Goodyear GSD3s, there are Pirelli, Michelin, Hankook, Continental, and Kumho on the Blackcircles site. Then BF Goodrich, Firestone, Uniroyal, Yokohama and Vredestein on Tyreleader. Surely some of these are suitable, and I haven't listed the JoeNoName makes either. It makes you thing there is something shady going on, pardon the thought.

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by adrianclifford » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:52 pm

Fraser, you're quite right you can fit what you want, it's your money and your car. Many cars and owners are happy with other brands. My co-rep Andy has had Marangoni's for years (all round I will add). Dave was happy with his Yokohama's and I'm sure others are too with theirs. My son has Hankook's on his 300+hp Megane so you pay your money and takes your chance, however many do not last long as they are very soft compound and maybe more expensive than Toyo or Falken so you're not limited to just those. These are the only two recommended by MG, that is why we mention them so often.

I think if you get the side wall rating correct all round you really should be OK, this I believe is the problem with the GSD2 v GSD3.
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Re: TF Tyres

Post by Fraser » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:33 am

Adrian, many thanks for your reply. Of course Jaguar also recommend tyres for my XJ6, and I actually have the recommended tyres fitted, (this time !!). However, there is never any "doom" warnings about other makes. Of course some are noisier or don't grip so well. For instance I had two Accelara Phi's on the back when I bought the car, and these lasted pretty well, and I didn't have much to complain about, so when they wore out, I fitted another pair.

Anyway, I think I am going to do something about the single Continental on the RH rear this summer. All the other tyres are the original Goodyear GSD2s.

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by colintf » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:11 pm

Fraser wrote:Adrian, many thanks for your reply. Of course Jaguar also recommend tyres for my XJ6, and I actually have the recommended tyres fitted, (this time !!). However, there is never any "doom" warnings about other makes. Of course some are noisier or don't grip so well. For instance I had two Accelara Phi's on the back when I bought the car, and these lasted pretty well, and I didn't have much to complain about, so when they wore out, I fitted another pair.

Anyway, I think I am going to do something about the single Continental on the RH rear this summer. All the other tyres are the original Goodyear GSD2s.
how old is the car, if they are origional tyres and 10 years old or more then they should all be changed :(

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by PeteC » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:42 pm

PeteC wrote:As far as I know, it is highly unusual for a manufacturer to issue a techical bulletin worded as strongly as this. Has anyone explored the insurance aspect of not using the Goodyear GSD2 (THE only recommended tyre - even though you can't get them any more!) or the alternative Falken or Toyo? If you had a serious accident using Michelins or Dunlops or Yokohamas for example, would you be in breach of you insurance terms and conditions?
Just a thought!
Pete
I posted the above some time back hoping someone might know the situation with insurance. Doesn't maintenace have to be carried out to manufacturers specifications and recommendations? I doubt if MG Motor would have embarked on some serious and expensive testing without good cause and concerns about the characteristic of the cars on some tyres.

Since then I have been advised by a tyre specialist that the tyres certainly have to be asymmetric, which consequently means they have a rotation direction marking and they cannot be swapped side to side. But other than that they were unaware that MG Motor only recommend 3 tyres for the TF! I also understand from other sources that on 15" wheels the TF is less sensitive to tyres, but it remains very sensitive to pressures. For what it's worth here our TF has Nexan 2000s on the front and Hankook Ventus Primes on the back. I can't detect any ill handling characteristics with this combination, but if the pressures drop by a couple of psi it is all over the place!

Pete

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by Fraser » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:35 pm

colintf wrote:
Fraser wrote:Adrian, many thanks for your reply. Of course Jaguar also recommend tyres for my XJ6, and I actually have the recommended tyres fitted, (this time !!). However, there is never any "doom" warnings about other makes. Of course some are noisier or don't grip so well. For instance I had two Accelara Phi's on the back when I bought the car, and these lasted pretty well, and I didn't have much to complain about, so when they wore out, I fitted another pair.

Anyway, I think I am going to do something about the single Continental on the RH rear this summer. All the other tyres are the original Goodyear GSD2s.
how old is the car, if they are origional tyres and 10 years old or more then they should all be changed :(
Car is one of the last made (Dec 2009) registered 8th Jan 2015. So the original tyres are well in date. Car is on 22k miles, bought March last year on 17k.

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by Steffi » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:06 am

I would be very careful with having different tyres on the same axle, especially on the back.
It´s anyway illegal in Germany.
I drove my TF with Goodyears on the front and Toyos on the back for some time and was quite happy.
Steffi

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by Fraser » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:39 pm

Hi Steffi

Thanks for that, as that is what I was intending to do, fit a pair of Toyos as the rears are more worn than the front. Then I would fit Toyos to the front as these wear out. Trouble is the car is only a fair weather car so the mileage per year is quite small.

I think a lot of the reported problems come from those who maybe "test" their cars more than most of us. For myself, I bought the car to use in summer and to take over some of the use I was giving my MG Midget, so I wanted an open top sports car about the same size, so it would fit the garage. The Midget is now at my mother's garage, and gets used much less now.

If anybody has any recommendations on other makes of tyre, they would be greatly appreciated

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by PeteC » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:18 am

There is a good article in the March issue of MG Enthusiast (page 72) written by Roger Parker of the MGOC relating to Toyo Proxes T1R tyres made in Malaysia, as these have been causing instability problems at speeds over 45 mph. Apparently the manufacture of these tyres was slightly changed to comply the 'new' labelling last year and has resulted in them being incompatible with the old design made in Japan. If the tyres are changed to 'Malaysian' all round or tyres made in Japan since September 2014, then the instability disappears.
Take a read of the article for full details.
Pete

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by adrianclifford » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:25 pm

Can you scan it Pete, not everybody gets MGE.

This is good to know.
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Re: TF Tyres

Post by PeteC » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:01 pm

Hopefully in the interests of safety, here it is!
EDITED Copy Removed - See posting below from Mykel. If anyone wants a full copy then please PM me

Pete
Last edited by PeteC on Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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colintf
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Re: TF Tyres

Post by colintf » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:02 pm

But does it infringe copyright rules???

8-)

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by PeteC » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:07 pm

That's what I meant! Hopefully not in the interests of safety.
Pete

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by colintf » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:10 pm

PeteC wrote:That's what I meant! Hopefully not in the interests of safety.
Pete
I have a feeling, that despite best intentions, that MG Enthusiast Magazine would not be too happy seeing that posted.

I don't know who to check with though. 8-)

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by PeteC » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:36 pm

There is a shorter version of the same topic in the February issue of Safety Fast. It's on page 10.
Pete

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by Mykel » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:52 pm

I’ve made up a little summary of the article (abridged and with slightly changed wording), so if the scanned image causes problems, here’s the essential information:
Several MGF and TF owners have recently reported handling and stability issues when replacing worn Toyo Proxes T1R tyres. The problems have all arisen when they change the tyres on the rear of their car with identical new Toyo Proxes T1R tyres, leaving their less-worn older Proxes T1R tyres on the front. After a tyre change of this nature the cars become very unstable, especially at speeds above approximately 45mph. This phenomenon was first seen in October 2014. Tyre pressures were not to blame, so this pointed to an issue related to the new tyres. Following discussions with Toyo's Technical Department, the source of the problem has been quickly identified and a solution found. Basically, Toyo have had to apply some very small changes to the tyre make-up to ensure compliance with the Tyre Labelling Regulations.

Unfortunately the small changes involved are enough to affect the MGF and TF and are generating the loss of stability. The new spec tyres are all Proxes T1R tyres manufactured in Toyo’s Malaysian factory and the Proxes T1R tyres made in their Japanese factory from September 2014. All tyres supplied and fitted to cars up to September 2014 will have been made in the Japanese plant and will be to the older specification. Identifying the tyres is quite simple as the country of origin is clearly moulded into one sidewall along with a date code with a four digit number. The last two numbers of this code are the year and the first two are the calendar week. There is often a prefix of letters and sometimes an additional number before the date code numbers, for example KEP2511, with KEP as prefix and 2511 referring to week 25 of 2011.

MGF and TF generate more wear on rear tyres. so owners will be facing renewal of the rear tyres before the front. While it is reasonable for owners to expect that replacing the worn tyres with new identical (as they believe) MG-approved tyres will not create problems, the new spec Proxes T1R (ie all tyres made in Malaysia and those made in Japan from September 2014) will. When fitted to the rear with the earlier spec Japanese made Proxes T1Rs remaining on the front, almost certainly the problems described will occur. However. if the front tyres are replaced with the newer spec Proxes T1R to match the rear, the handling should return to normal. The final important point is to ensure that the correct tyre pressures are set.
hth
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colintf
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Re: TF Tyres

Post by colintf » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:07 pm

Mykel wrote:I’ve made up a little summary of the article (abridged and with slightly changed wording), so if the scanned image causes problems, here’s the essential information:
Several MGF and TF owners have recently reported handling and stability issues when replacing worn Toyo Proxes T1R tyres. The problems have all arisen when they change the tyres on the rear of their car with identical new Toyo Proxes T1R tyres, leaving their less-worn older Proxes T1R tyres on the front. After a tyre change of this nature the cars become very unstable, especially at speeds above approximately 45mph. This phenomenon was first seen in October 2014. Tyre pressures were not to blame, so this pointed to an issue related to the new tyres. Following discussions with Toyo's Technical Department, the source of the problem has been quickly identified and a solution found. Basically, Toyo have had to apply some very small changes to the tyre make-up to ensure compliance with the Tyre Labelling Regulations.

Unfortunately the small changes involved are enough to affect the MGF and TF and are generating the loss of stability. The new spec tyres are all Proxes T1R tyres manufactured in Toyo’s Malaysian factory and the Proxes T1R tyres made in their Japanese factory from September 2014. All tyres supplied and fitted to cars up to September 2014 will have been made in the Japanese plant and will be to the older specification. Identifying the tyres is quite simple as the country of origin is clearly moulded into one sidewall along with a date code with a four digit number. The last two numbers of this code are the year and the first two are the calendar week. There is often a prefix of letters and sometimes an additional number before the date code numbers, for example KEP2511, with KEP as prefix and 2511 referring to week 25 of 2011.

MGF and TF generate more wear on rear tyres. so owners will be facing renewal of the rear tyres before the front. While it is reasonable for owners to expect that replacing the worn tyres with new identical (as they believe) MG-approved tyres will not create problems, the new spec Proxes T1R (ie all tyres made in Malaysia and those made in Japan from September 2014) will. When fitted to the rear with the earlier spec Japanese made Proxes T1Rs remaining on the front, almost certainly the problems described will occur. However. if the front tyres are replaced with the newer spec Proxes T1R to match the rear, the handling should return to normal. The final important point is to ensure that the correct tyre pressures are set.
hth
Nice one Mykel :thumbsu:

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PeteC
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Re: TF Tyres

Post by PeteC » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:12 pm

And I've removed the scanned copy. The edit refers to Mykel's contribution. Full copy available by PM.
Pete

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Re: TF Tyres

Post by colintf » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:20 pm

PeteC wrote:And I've removed the scanned copy. The edit refers to Mykel's contribution. Full copy available by PM.
Pete
Probably best playing safe on this :thumbsu:

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