What am I letting myself into? (Project car)

[sniperpenguin]

Im looking at a potential project car that Im 95% positive of buying...

To save me re-typing the whole scenario (extensive) the thread is below.

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=414361

It's worth reading, as it also contains some updates I found out regarding work done on the car whilst investigating (If people would not read the .org thread, please say so and I'll do my best to summarise)

The question I have is, whilst it is 99% likely that the engine is in need of extensive repair.... can I have opinions on whether it is likely a case of

1. New valves / seals etc.
2. As above but also new head
3. Whole new engine (Scary prospect for me to do alone)

[Station]

How much is it? If it's over 300 quid, I wouldn't bother. Even as a veteran meddler with cars, I found the whole engine change to be lengthy and quite tough - although at the end I found I'd done a proper job and didn't cut corners, I was working on it when there was snow on the ground in the open.
Just look around further and pay a bit more for a working car, but if you're looking for a project it's really your choice.

[Keith Williams]

The question I have is, whilst it is 99% likely that the engine is in need of extensive repair.... can I have opinions on whether it is likely a case of

1. New valves / seals etc.
2. As above but also new head
3. Whole new engine (Scary prospect for me to do alone)

When my engine gave up, a couple of valves gave way which damaged the head and took out a piston whilst it was doing it, so the easiest option was another engine. The replacement engine was 'refurbished' as much as my garage could do but after fitting and running it for a while, the head on the 2nd engine needed a further refurbished head added and a strip down as the piston liners were loose.
Moral of the story, unless you get the car really cheap and/or you love the car (as in my case), or you love stripping down engines and can do the work yourself, there are many more Fs around which would be a better prospect.

[Geoff.F]

The easiest repair would be to plan to replace the engine as this is simple spanner work (albeit a lot of it) however I would first establish what has failed as you may be lucky and have a simple fix.
It must be a hobby as it will cost you more than it will finally be worth. This final cost will depend on what else requires work, ie. tyres, brakes, clutch, coolant pipes/hoses etc.etc.
Go for it.
Geoff F.

[sniperpenguin]

Thanks for the replies

Wasnt choosing one forum over another, just posted first into the more active of the two, and linking to the thread was easier than typing out half a page of summary

If I do go down the route of replacement engine, Im assuming I can only use VVC engines from the MK1's due to the MEM's version on the ECU - Am I on the right lines?

[Rob Bell]

It's dropped a valve. Almost certainly will have damaged the cylinder head, and reasonable chance the piston too. The bottom end could be rebuilt, but actually simpler and easier to slot in a new engine.

This sounds like a great project car - especially if you were planning an engine transplant (KV6?), but even if not, then as an engine swap, you'll learn loads about how these cars are put together.

I agree, it's a lot of work to get the engine out and bolt in a new one, but this isn't actually difficult stuff (as I've discovered).

Go into this open-eyed, aware of the pitfalls and see the opportunities. No, this project doesn't make any economic sense. But it could be a lot of fun! I've really enjoyed Project Shed so far - and that's inspite of the car fighting practically every step of the way!

If I do go down the route of replacement engine, Im assuming I can only use VVC engines from the MK1's due to the MEM's version on the ECU - Am I on the right lines?

You can fit a later VVC engine - in fact, any VVC engine. You just need to swap over the relevant ancillaries. Or you could convert to MEMS3 - which as you know already, can be remapped To change to MEMS3 requires a fair bit of wiring (Matt Parker is now a well-known expert at doing this), but it's do-able. As, of course, is swapping over the entire harness to MY2000/Mk1 TF spec

Go on, you know you want to

[sniperpenguin]

"You can fit a later VVC engine - in fact, any VVC engine. You just need to swap over the relevant ancillaries. Or you could convert to MEMS3 - which as you know already, can be remapped To change to MEMS3 requires a fair bit of wiring (Matt Parker is now a well-known expert at doing this), but it's do-able. As, of course, is swapping over the entire harness to MY2000/Mk1 TF spec"

That one paragraph screams "long chat, many brews and lots of notes on how to get various engines to work" - Me like, despite having the technical expertise of a badger.... I've done a HG / Oil rail change before (with help) but my main issue is confidence and lack of experience.

Oh my soul for a big, heated garage

[Rob Bell]

Ah, but the liberating thing about a project car is that it doesn't matter if it is still in pieces on Monday morning! No pressure. You can take a bit more time, scratch your chin, make lots of brews. Stare at the immobile hunk of metal. Kick it. Then alight on the brilliant solution, and then you'll feel like an engineering god!

I agree, it helps a lot if you've got someone to offer moral support - I'm building project Shed with Tim Woolcott, and that's been invaluable - especially when moral is low and motivation has got up and gone.

And yes, what we'd all do for a decent sized heated garage... mine's on the front drive!

I reckon you've convinced yourself already. Go on, do it!

[Mykel]

Ah, but the liberating thing about a project car is that it doesn't matter if it is still in pieces on Monday morning! No pressure.

If She who has The Say doesn't need any valuable space in/on the garage/yard/cellar/attic/living room/kitchen table that is, of course.

[Reckless Rat]

I have to admit that I favour the "bin the engine" route, unless you're a complete masochist and just like taking the K series to bits and rebuilding it just for the fun of it. Usually a broken cam belt will render it a basket case (although some bits might be salvageable).

If you're thinking of a "project" it's an ideal opportunity to take the engine/subframe out and wonder what you might replace the K series with. I'd actually like to try shoeing in a K4 Turbo rather than a KV6, from a weight (and buggeration) perspective, but there are other options available too. Just depends on how adventurous you want to be...

See this article by Rob Bell:

http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/en ... ptions.htm

[Geoff.F]

Except in my case where I paid for the 5m extension on the back of the garage.
Geoff F.

[Mykel]

Except in my case where I paid for the 5m extension on the back of the garage.
Geoff F.

[Reckless Rat]

Unfortunately garage space tends to follow Boyle's Law in that the amount of crap you accumulate just expands to fit the available space. When we moved down here I built myself a new garage/workshop which is 28' x 28' (8m by 8m) and whilst I can get three cars into it easily, plus space for motor bikes, gardening things, a lathe, a workbench, a toilet, a sink and lots of shelving, I still have three cars I can't get in the garage.

I reckon I should have built it 12m x 8... (and that's not counting the garage's attic and mezzanine for stocking spares & other stuff...

isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

[Rob Bell]

If you're thinking of a "project" it's an ideal opportunity to take the engine/subframe out and wonder what you might replace the K series with. I'd actually like to try shoeing in a K4 Turbo rather than a KV6, from a weight (and buggeration) perspective, but there are other options available too. Just depends on how adventurous you want to be...

I agree, the 1.8T K-series would be a very good choice - and Matt and Roger Parker are building a TF turbo at the moment. Not sure of the details though! The mechanicals will all bolt straight in - big advantage. Whether you need a custom manifold is another question, but I rather suspect not.

Except in my case where I paid for the 5m extension on the back of the garage.
Geoff F.

That's pure genius!

[sniperpenguin]

Not sure a 1.8T K would be within budget (Looking to keep the total cost under a grand, ideally including the cost of the car) and Im pretty sure the manifolds are different. I wonder if the turbo could be transplanted?

On the lookout then for a cheap VVC engine/subframe.... or maybe even a donor car, who knows...

Im even looking into garage space!

[sniperpenguin]

Well, its bought

Pics come up when I get offers of help!

[Rob Bell]

Good man!

Turbo engines have lower compression and better specification pistons, so technically, no you can't just bolt on a turbo. But practically? Yes, you could, but only with a very light boost pressure, unless you plan internal modifications at a later date.

Plenty of help and words of encouragement from us! Would pop over to help, but unfortunately North Wales is a bit of a trek for me!

[sniperpenguin]

Good man!

Turbo engines have lower compression and better specification pistons, so technically, no you can't just bolt on a turbo. But practically? Yes, you could, but only with a very light boost pressure, unless you plan internal modifications at a later date.

Plenty of help and words of encouragement from us! Would pop over to help, but unfortunately North Wales is a bit of a trek for me!

Oh come ooooooooooooooon , I have bacon butties, and we have a decent supply of lamb up here too!

Speaking of which, with you ENORMOUS collection of spares, do you have an early VVC engine kicking about?

[Rob Bell]

No, but I know where one is

Would be up for a visit some time. Hmm, bacon butties!

[sniperpenguin]

No, but I know where one is

Would be up for a visit some time. Hmm, bacon butties!

£50? SOLD!