Another HG Question - Am I being ripped off

[Midlifecrisis]

I purchased a 1996 MGF a month ago which came with an invoice from a garage who replaced the head gasket in January 2008 at a cost of £750. Soon after this owner hardly used the car and it sat outside until I bought it. As it had not had a service stamped in the book for some time, I put the car in for both an MOT and main service. Unfortunately the car needed some work done for the MOT and the total bill for parts and labour came to just under £1000. Anyway as I love the car, I paid the bill and just before I left, the garage informed me that it was noticed that there was no coolant in the expansion tank when they got the car and although they had not pressure tested it, it would be best if I kept an eye on the coolant level in case the HG had gone. Like an idiot I did not question this.

I would be grateful if someone could advise me.

1. As there was only a couple of hundred miles on the clock since the HG had been replaced and me purchasing it, could the HG go again that quickly?
2. Would the garage not have seen immediately that the old oil was a strange colour when they serviced it or that possible black smoke was coming out of the exhaust when doing the MOT? Would it have passed the MOT with a blown HG?
3. Are the following signs which I'm experiencing systematic of a blown HG - Cold air from heater when heater dial is used but hot air when dial in off positon, quarter pint loss of coolant on a 200 miles round trip since service, revs sometimes sticking on 1500 - 2000rpm on idle when engine hot.
4. My temp & oil pressue gauge do not show overheating.

Should I contact both garages who did the service and HG or just get a compression check done somewhere else and take it from there? I'm reluctant to shell out another load of cash as the wife will go nuts. I love the car but this is getting me down. Any advice would be very much appreciated

Thanks

[Chris Tideswell]

1. Yes it could if the work wasn't done properly or the problem that lead to the HGF wasn't found and corrected.
2. They may have seen the oil colour, a car with a HGF could well pass a MoT but is yours chucking out black smoke?
3. There can be many possible signs of a HGF, no heat from the heater is one of them.
4. That isn't an indication either way.

The problem could be that there is a coolant leak that lead to the original problem that hasn't been found and the oil wasn't flushed out properly when the work was done, or the HG has gone again either due to a lack of coolant or shoddy workmanship or there is a fundamental problem with the engine. I would have the coolant system pressure tested and sniff tested and take it from there.

[David Clelland]

Unfortunately if an MGF or TF misses a beat then your local garage mechanic will diagnose HGF. Your car shouldn't be losing coolant, but it might just be as simple as a leaking hose or a faulty expansion tank cap. In fact that might have been the cause of the HGF the last owner suffered and it's never been fixed. If your heater is blowing cold it sounds like you you have air in the system and you need to get the whole lot bled properly. In fact if this hadn't been done after the HGF then it could easily cause another one irrespective of mileage - it's surprising how many HGFs happen after a service because the system hasn't been bled properly. If I were you I would take the car to a decent garage and get it pressure (not compression) tested to see if there are any leaks. If the car is OK get them to bleed the system and change the cap (only £5).

[Janne]

I'm also suspecting HGF. Today i fired up the car first time since last september, and almost immediatly after turning it on there started to sound boiling sound from the engine, and steam coming out. Smoke from exhausts was very white. I checked oil&coolant before turning it on and both were fine. So is this HGF?

[lee632]

If you do have HGF check out this guy, a lot cheaper than £750 and he knows his potatoes.

http://www.mgroversolutions.com/#

[redarrow]

What was the thousand, pound for exactly.

what was replaced, what they do, Sounds odd £1000 for what,was the hgf changed with that money for the mot!!!!!.

That a hell off a price.(garage con i say.before you post.))))))

you go for a mot and charged under £1000 to get a cert to drive the car.

but a mot test,not a lot can go wrong to fail you((no way £1000 pound.

mot.

brakes work (rolling test).
brake calipers and brakes are ok.
lights work(light test vision/clearness).
Emission's not high.
wheel are straight.(alignment).
wheel are legal.
horn works.
washer works(spits water).
window no cracks all around.
windows no stickers(stickers must be left hand side, in a row now).
window wipers work.
seat belts work.
headlight high beam, and normal beam.
indicates work.
all rubber bushes, look ok not crumbled.((can fail but usually written warning.))
all toe arms are ok.((can fail usually written warning.))

what the hell cost £1000, to get done, from above no way.

if u still got hgf, after the mot payout, that i don't believe, cost £1000 or under, unless they use real gold parts, for mot purpose.

you can phone Russel Walsh good old pal....lol
http://www.mgroversolutions.com/#

He not a con, don't forget tell him about £1000, he would off done it all, Not that price here lath, with water in his eyes, he told me about this going on.(con artists )))

ill tell you one while on, con artists, we went to twick fit, for a lath dad no them, and there a man there getting/wanting brakes done,the back brakes were the old spring type,shoe pads. twick fit, buy there computer, charge £350 to fit them,i went mad lol,at the price, so mad, i got the shoe pads for £32 from a car shop, and fitted them there and then,in front off there grate guys.(asked for tenner lol )) the twick fit repairer didn't even no , how to fit the springs on shoes, but was going to charge £350 yeee right.and they tested the brakes on the roller i got it perfect ,idiots.i saved the man £300,these god dam robbers unreal.

[Janne]

lee thx but i live in finland, bit long drive there =D

[Janne]

okey talked today with only local mg mechanic about hgf, he estimated price to be 1800-2500€ . Seems to be quite much since for my previous honda it cost 700. So what you reckon can i take mg to any goodknown mechanic for HG change? and what else there should be changed same time/what parts do i need to order?

[Janne]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MGF-MGZR-MGTF-K-S ... 0415755073

would that be good kit to start? What else do i need?

[lee632]

I would do the water pump, Timming belt and tensioner and Auxiliary drive belt while your at it, if it's a VVC the VVC belt aswell. Thermostat perhaps for peace of mind aswell...or upgrade it to a PRT as fitted to TF's...

Lee

[Janne]

its not VVC.. and maybe stupid question but what's PRT ?

[Janne]

and what do people think about those 3rd party parts sold in ebay? it would be easiest to buy from there because most of the sellers do send to finland

[Stan_B]

The PRT thermostat was fitted to TFs from late 03 on. It may reduce the incidence of HGF.
I have no opinion abour Ebay vendors!

[Janne]

can i fit PRT to 95' f without any modifications?

[adrianclifford]

No Janne, you cannot, it sits in a different location (that's why it's called a remote thermostat), but you can buy the parts from a 2004 or later TF and fit them yourself. It reduces the "thermal shock" and keeps the coolant at a more constant level to reduce the strain on the cylinder head. Try Martin Smith at www.usedmgtfspares.co.uk he carefully removes parts and may have one in stock if you want to fit it.

I don't know the quality of parts sold as HGF kits, try Brown and Gammons or Mike Satur in the UK, they'll post to Finland and you'll get good parts. You have been given good advice on what you need, but make sure the coolant and oil are all flushed out clean and the three coolant bleed points are used, keep the heater on to make sure it is well bled.

[Janne]

ok, so maybe just new thermostat will be enough? I'll probably buy all the stuff from mike satur since its roughly same price as in ebay

[Chris Tideswell]

ok, so maybe just new thermostat will be enough?

I've not seen any real evidence that PRT makes that much of a difference to reduction of HGF numbers.

[adrianclifford]

Maybe not Chris, I mentioned it as it was asked. That would be too difficult to guage but, looking at the reasoning behind the movement of the thermostat it can only be a good idea but how good...................answers on a post card I think.

[MGsteveT]

Unfortunately HGF also occurs on the TF's with the PRT Thermostat and imho isn't worth the time and money in swapping. One piece of advise i will give though is to order the latest Chinese Spec HeadGasket set - Part Number is ZUA000530. It comes as a new design of Headgasket (better than the LandRover MLS type), Bolts with new torque settings and the Oil Rail. You will also need to order the Exhaust and Inlet gaskets (modified Inlet gasket from 2010 also now available - Part no LKJ10110SLP
We've now fitted 25+ of these new HeadGaskets and they inspire with confidence when fitting them and seem much better than the MLS type. The HeadGasket kit is around £285 retail plus the Inlet and Exhaust gaskets so not cheap but worth it.

Still not sure whether the Oil Rail is really needed but it comes with the kit so we fit them anyway.
The fitting of the new kit takes longer (because of the oil rail) and if done properly can be expensive but it's worth the money. Anyone that charges around £400 for a HGF is either cutting corners or using cheap parts.

As for the £1000 MOT list, it's not out of the question to have £1000 worth of work on early MGFs. I don't think the prices is the issue more how strict they were being on the MOT.
Early F's (because they're 15 years old) suffer with rear Brake Calipers sticking, Discs corroded, Front Lower Suspension Arms, Brake Pipes at the union by the Carpet sound Proofing corrode and require the full length of 3 pipes to be made up, Emission issues etc etc. You'd have to be really unlucky for all these to strike at the same MOT but it's not impossible.

[colintf]

thankyou for taht inforamtion and advice Steve :thumb

p.s. how's the racing going?