Engine code 18K4KK67 - HELP

[jrgibb]

Hi all,

About to purchase an engine however I'm struggling with the engine code, it's a 1.8 VVC but I can't identify the K67, I'm trying to work out the bhp of this engine, I've read this code may be a "service engine" number. Not sure exactly what a "service engine" is - I'm also trying to work out if this is a 160 or one of the lower powered VVC units??

First post, so be gentle and thanks in advance

Jason

[Mike H]

Hi and welcome.

I don't have the information to hand, but check out Rob Bell's site here and Rimmer Bros site here. Both should contain the information you're looking for.

[jrgibb]

Have checked Rimmer and Rob's site previously neither identify the K67 code - Paul at Rimmers is looking into it for me as he couldn't find it on his system - the plot thickens

[adrianclifford]

I have every known K series engine dressing code known to F's and TF's but nothing like this. The EU4 compliant 160 engines are 18K4KS04 and 18K4KS05 they about the only difference to the standard that I have traced. The next issue of FasTForward should have these all listed if Tim has space.

Numerically listed the nearest to this number is 18KJ90 6........ but this is a 1995-2000 vvc 143 bhp MGF manual transmission with air con. I have nothing in the KK series at all. Alphabetically the next is 18K4KM11 3........which is the same MGF as far as 2002.

If you do find out please let me know, Rob and I would be interested.

[Keith Williams]

If you look again on the Rimmers website, there is a K67 engine code as fitted to the MGZR - K67 described as Service stripped engine. It is not showing as a VVC even though the 4K part of the code says it is?

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/content--na ... nformation

[jrgibb]

To provide some more info, this engine is a VVC its a full engine with all the ancillaries, it was removed from an S1 Elise, as best I can establish lotus only had there own engine numbers on 1999 or newer cars in the Elise, could this be a batch supplied to Lotus pre 99 during the Elise production 96 - 99 with MG Rover codes??? This has the Lotus ECU MEMS 2J which fits the Elise VVC 143bhp unit

[Rob Bell]

Hi Jason, thanks for this really interesting question! I think that Keith may have nailed this: the Elise you have (or are looking at?) has had an engine transplant at some point in the past.

However, as everyone says and you've identified yourself, the 18K4K K67 doesn't seem to be a code combination that exists - at least not according to Rimmer Bros. There are however a 18K4F K67 and a 18K4K L67?

From the Rover K-series manual, a screen shot - 18K4FK67 highlighted:

Where is the number you've found? The critical one is the one stamped on the block itself below the water outlet on the front right corner of the block:


Are you able to post a picture of yours?

[Rob Bell]

I'm also trying to work out if this is a 160 or one of the lower powered VVC units??

And this is also a good question - not least because the 160 engines use stronger pistons than the earlier versions, and therefore are more amenable to engine tuning

The fact that it is running MEMS2J to me suggests that it is not currently tuned to 160PS spec. It's not that the 2J can't be remapped, but it isn't straightforward - and would in fact be much easier to convert the existing engine loom over to MEMS3 spec. Elise 160s used the MPi engine as its base as I recall. Not sure what engine numbers would have applied to these (or the 135 sport) engines?

[jrgibb]

The thing that started this was a dyno I was sent showing the engine producing 158bhp

https://flic.kr/p/J6gYhA

I'd stress this engine is coming from a very reliable and trusted source, he drove the Elise it came out of before the engine was removed for a Honda conversion and has vouched for it, it's just working out it's origins, clearly it's not the original Elise engine it's trying to work where the block came from or if it's a 143bhp or a 160bhp.

158bhp out of an Elise VVC is wrong, it's not an S2 Elise 111S which was my first thought, then is it a transplant from a Trophy or similar or a 143bhp engine with some head work????

The guy got the engine and sourced an Elise S1 111S loom, ECU and transponder - so my comment above about the ECU is a bit of a red herring (sorry)

I'm going the be happy with a 143bhp VVC but it would be good to know if the bottom end is a little more robust for if I wanted to go see Mr Andrews at some point

Re the engine numbers - Hope this help and you can see this;

https://flic.kr/p/J6gjy9

[Rob Bell]

Yes, that's pretty unequivocal.

Annoyingly, even the official Lotus Elise Service Manual shows only the Rover codes (they copied and pasted the Rover K-series manual into their own document! ). It may be possible that there are specific dressing codes for engines sent to Lotus (and Caterham etc).

[Rob Bell]

BTW do you have the V5? It will show the engine number associated with the car when it was first registered.

[jrgibb]

I've edited my post above - more info - no V5 it's just an engine J

Updated - The Lotus Service manual lists a K67 engine number prefix;

https://flic.kr/p/Hjgy23

[Rob Bell]

Ah yes, I saw that too. But that dressing code only appears to be associated with the 18K4F engines?

[jrgibb]

Just had this back from Rimmers

Based on the fact the K67 sequence goes back to 04/1995 I would guess at a 145PS.
Fitted to old XW's and TF ECD2 spec
I think the 160 came in a lot later than that.

Does that make any sense to anyone??? Think I'm dealing with a mongrel

[Rob Bell]

XWs?

The 160PS spec engine appeared originally on the MGF Trophy (different engine dressing number though: N36, N48 and N49) in 2001 - and was fully homologated for the TF160 from 2002.

It isn't a TF or MGF 160 engine however. I suspect that you're right, and that this is more likely than not a 145 PS engine.

If you are taking the head off, there will be tell-tale stamps on the pistons if this were a genuine 160PS engine.

Actually, just thought - there is another way to look at this - the cylinder head will have a casting number on it! The casting number should be on the inlet flange over inlet port number two. <- not sure about that - can't see this on any pictures of a VVC cylinder head: will have to investigate further when I get home!

LDF 105460 for the 145 and LDF 106970 (I think - but would need to verify) for the 160. Note that these numbers are not the same as the surprisingly similar format part numbers (why not use the same ?!!!)

Quick plea to Trophy and TF160 owners - can you let me know your cylinder head casting numbers?

[jrgibb]

Rob - thanks for the help!!

Given it's out of an S1 VVC Elise I'm 95% sure it's going to be a 145 engine. That K67 is just a bit of a strange one.

Will pick it up next week, when I've got it I'll give a good look over for other indications of its origin and report back. Flow down test to see if opening up is needed (may anyway) I'll be off with my project engine -

[Rob Bell]

I think you're right Jason. What's the plan for the new engine and what is it going into?

The head casting number was a good idea, but on looking at a couple of heads and for the life of me, I can't see where it is stamped?!?

[jrgibb]

If the engines in good condition I may not opening it up but, almost as I type I'm halfway to thinking it would be stupid not to to check the bores, do rings etc. . . anyway, assuming I don't open her up, lightweight flywheel, exhaust mani, a bit of fettling to get a good match to the head . . . I'll probably get carried away and talk to Dave Andrews and who knows where it'll go I'm in no rush, it's a project engine for the autumn / winter.

In terms of where it may end up, I better not say in such company particularly as we've been getting on so well although you may be able to guess

[Rob Bell]

I wouldn't worry about that - Ed is been busy putting a VVC into an Austin Allegro, and we haven't shot him (yet )

[jrgibb]

I'll be dropping it in here ;