Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Moderator: Committee Members
Forum rules
Not many rules really, this board being aimed at technical issues, it shouldn't fall foul (hopefully) of some of the more personal issues that can affect forums.
Rule 1 - Is that you need to think very carefully before posting anything technical or asking anything technical relating to the security system of the car - See 'Security Issues' sticky for more info.
Rule 2 - We (MGF Register) do not support copyright infringement and therefore references to CD ROM, PDF versions or paper copies of the workshop manual (for instance) should not be posted on the forum. We don't want to get into trouble and we'd rather sell you a genuine hard copy through our Regalia shop anyway!![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Because advice is honestly and freely given in this technical section, much of it will be amateur experienced based, so any information is given in good faith and is not guaranteed as correct.
Not many rules really, this board being aimed at technical issues, it shouldn't fall foul (hopefully) of some of the more personal issues that can affect forums.
Rule 1 - Is that you need to think very carefully before posting anything technical or asking anything technical relating to the security system of the car - See 'Security Issues' sticky for more info.
Rule 2 - We (MGF Register) do not support copyright infringement and therefore references to CD ROM, PDF versions or paper copies of the workshop manual (for instance) should not be posted on the forum. We don't want to get into trouble and we'd rather sell you a genuine hard copy through our Regalia shop anyway!
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Because advice is honestly and freely given in this technical section, much of it will be amateur experienced based, so any information is given in good faith and is not guaranteed as correct.
- Barbour
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:39 pm
- MGF Register Region: Europe
- Model of Car: 2002 TF 135 LEF PUU
- Location: NL
- Contact:
Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
As my gear change was pretty sloppy I got the bell crank upgrade from MG Mania
http://mgmanialtd.com/index.php?id_prod ... er=product
My garage put it in place, only to find it's very hard now to get the gear lever in first or second. They could not get it right really.
The only way to get it in first without too much force is to first shift to third, let the car roll a bit, than swiftly go from third to first.
I can only go to second by pulling the lever towards the left quite firmly.
The rest of the gears work quite nicely.
Any thoughts and tips are greatly appreciated.
http://mgmanialtd.com/index.php?id_prod ... er=product
My garage put it in place, only to find it's very hard now to get the gear lever in first or second. They could not get it right really.
The only way to get it in first without too much force is to first shift to third, let the car roll a bit, than swiftly go from third to first.
I can only go to second by pulling the lever towards the left quite firmly.
The rest of the gears work quite nicely.
Any thoughts and tips are greatly appreciated.
Cheers!
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
Blue 2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
Anthracite 1998 MG-F 1.8 Mpi (sold)
Silver 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate (sold)
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
-
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:15 pm
- MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
- Model of Car: 2006(reg) TF135
- Location: Jersey
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Sounds like the cross gate link needs adjustment.
hth
willyphixitt
hth
willyphixitt
- Barbour
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:39 pm
- MGF Register Region: Europe
- Model of Car: 2002 TF 135 LEF PUU
- Location: NL
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Thank you for your reply, as English is not my first language I struggle to understand/visualise what you mean by cross gate link, could you please elaborate?willyphixitt wrote:Sounds like the cross gate link needs adjustment.
hth
willyphixitt
Cheers!
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
Blue 2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
Anthracite 1998 MG-F 1.8 Mpi (sold)
Silver 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate (sold)
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
-
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:15 pm
- MGF Register Region: Elsewhere
- Model of Car: 2006(reg) TF135
- Location: Jersey
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Hi Barbour,
It's the left/right movement of the gear stick. I suspect that when you move across the box that the gearbox end of the cable is not fully in line with the fore and aft movement of the gear change shaft in the gearbox. Hence the difficulty in getting 1st and 2nd gear. Does that make sense to you? Hope it does. Can't remember if you need to lengthen or shorten the linkage at the gearbox bell crank. You will need to have someone move the gearstick over to 1st/2nd side and see at the gearbox input shaft which way you need to adjust the length of the cable. Good luck.
willyphixitt
It's the left/right movement of the gear stick. I suspect that when you move across the box that the gearbox end of the cable is not fully in line with the fore and aft movement of the gear change shaft in the gearbox. Hence the difficulty in getting 1st and 2nd gear. Does that make sense to you? Hope it does. Can't remember if you need to lengthen or shorten the linkage at the gearbox bell crank. You will need to have someone move the gearstick over to 1st/2nd side and see at the gearbox input shaft which way you need to adjust the length of the cable. Good luck.
willyphixitt
- Steve White
- Regional Rep
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:43 pm
- MGF Register Region: Midlands
- Model of Car: TF160, ZT260
- Location: Rugby
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
The link you posted points to an MGTF bell crank, is this what you have had fitted?
The bell cranks are different on the MGF and TF as one of the gear change cables is a different length.
The bell cranks are different on the MGF and TF as one of the gear change cables is a different length.
- Barbour
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:39 pm
- MGF Register Region: Europe
- Model of Car: 2002 TF 135 LEF PUU
- Location: NL
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
My bad, wrong link, sharp eye, cheers!Steve White wrote:The link you posted points to an MGTF bell crank, is this what you have had fitted?
The bell cranks are different on the MGF and TF as one of the gear change cables is a different length.
I had ordered the correct version for the MG-F.
Cheers!
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
Blue 2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
Anthracite 1998 MG-F 1.8 Mpi (sold)
Silver 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate (sold)
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
- Barbour
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:39 pm
- MGF Register Region: Europe
- Model of Car: 2002 TF 135 LEF PUU
- Location: NL
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Thank you for enlightening me, I'll get to it this week.willyphixitt wrote:Hi Barbour,
It's the left/right movement of the gear stick. I suspect that when you move across the box that the gearbox end of the cable is not fully in line with the fore and aft movement of the gear change shaft in the gearbox. Hence the difficulty in getting 1st and 2nd gear. Does that make sense to you? Hope it does. Can't remember if you need to lengthen or shorten the linkage at the gearbox bell crank. You will need to have someone move the gearstick over to 1st/2nd side and see at the gearbox input shaft which way you need to adjust the length of the cable. Good luck.
willyphixitt
Cheers!
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
Blue 2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
Anthracite 1998 MG-F 1.8 Mpi (sold)
Silver 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate (sold)
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
- talkingcars
- Posts: 5771
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:44 pm
- MGF Register Region: South East
- Model of Car: mk1 VVC
- Location: West Sussex
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Have a look at https://www.the-t-bar.com/forum/54-how- ... gear-lever
Home to black Alfa 159 3.2 V6 Q4, blue MGZR160, green MGF VVC and grey MGF 1.8i, and red MG Maestro T16.
MGF chatting on the Register and at http://www.the-t-bar.com
MGF chatting on the Register and at http://www.the-t-bar.com
- Barbour
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:39 pm
- MGF Register Region: Europe
- Model of Car: 2002 TF 135 LEF PUU
- Location: NL
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Thank you for the advice all of you, it's quite fiddly, but I'm slowly getting there ![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Editp: Dropped a spanner down the gear shift mechanism, dammit...
Any suggestions how to get that out?
Remove the panel on the underside?
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
Editp: Dropped a spanner down the gear shift mechanism, dammit...
Any suggestions how to get that out?
Remove the panel on the underside?
Cheers!
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
Blue 2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
Anthracite 1998 MG-F 1.8 Mpi (sold)
Silver 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate (sold)
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
- talkingcars
- Posts: 5771
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:44 pm
- MGF Register Region: South East
- Model of Car: mk1 VVC
- Location: West Sussex
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
No, it has to come out through the same hole.Barbour wrote:Remove the panel on the underside?
Can you see it?
Home to black Alfa 159 3.2 V6 Q4, blue MGZR160, green MGF VVC and grey MGF 1.8i, and red MG Maestro T16.
MGF chatting on the Register and at http://www.the-t-bar.com
MGF chatting on the Register and at http://www.the-t-bar.com
-
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 6:54 am
- MGF Register Region: North West
- Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Hi Barbour
Remember me? we met last autumn when you came over to collect a soft top I was giving away.
I also bought one of these kits for my previous car, an Abingdon, I found that one of the ball ends was quite a bit shorter that the originals and that there was therefore insufficient adjustment left in the cable to enable all the gears to engage, in my case it was reverse that was causing me a problem, so I devised a modification using a 5mm bolt and part of the old gear change end.
I posted this here back in 2015 and have attempted to copy it below I hope it has come out alright.
Any questions please message me
Quote
Postby alect » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:43 pm
I recently fitted a new gear change quadrant that I bought from MG Mania in an attempt to improve the wooly gear change on the Abingdon, very easy to fit once the roll pin is out but I could not get reverse.
There are two cables, one selects the gears and the other traverses the gate, the original factory cable end on the gate cable is 40mm from centre but the supplied rod end is only 27mm. So far too short to work properley
The gear selection end is fine as supplied
I searched rod end suppliers to see if it was possible to buy a more suitable rod end but no luck, so resorted to bit of ingenuity. here you can see the difference in length of the original knackered end and the new spherical joint.
I decided to try to make some sort of adapter using the threaded portion of the scrap cable end and 5mm cap screw I had lying around.
I cut a piece of thread off the cap screw and wound it into the new joint, screwed on the old end, measured 40mm from the centre and trimmed it off with a hacksaw.
Top here you get the idea
I refitted the modified rod end and reverse gear is now back where it belongs
difficault to take this picture but it is all back to together, and the gears all go in and out nicely.
So if any of you are tempted to get one of these quadrants bear in mind a little modification is required.
I am looking forward to finishing off all the other jobs outstanding and getting the Abingdon back on the road to try out the new gear change and the TT exhaust.
Remember me? we met last autumn when you came over to collect a soft top I was giving away.
I also bought one of these kits for my previous car, an Abingdon, I found that one of the ball ends was quite a bit shorter that the originals and that there was therefore insufficient adjustment left in the cable to enable all the gears to engage, in my case it was reverse that was causing me a problem, so I devised a modification using a 5mm bolt and part of the old gear change end.
I posted this here back in 2015 and have attempted to copy it below I hope it has come out alright.
Any questions please message me
Quote
Postby alect » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:43 pm
I recently fitted a new gear change quadrant that I bought from MG Mania in an attempt to improve the wooly gear change on the Abingdon, very easy to fit once the roll pin is out but I could not get reverse.
There are two cables, one selects the gears and the other traverses the gate, the original factory cable end on the gate cable is 40mm from centre but the supplied rod end is only 27mm. So far too short to work properley
The gear selection end is fine as supplied
I searched rod end suppliers to see if it was possible to buy a more suitable rod end but no luck, so resorted to bit of ingenuity. here you can see the difference in length of the original knackered end and the new spherical joint.
I decided to try to make some sort of adapter using the threaded portion of the scrap cable end and 5mm cap screw I had lying around.
I cut a piece of thread off the cap screw and wound it into the new joint, screwed on the old end, measured 40mm from the centre and trimmed it off with a hacksaw.
Top here you get the idea
I refitted the modified rod end and reverse gear is now back where it belongs
difficault to take this picture but it is all back to together, and the gears all go in and out nicely.
So if any of you are tempted to get one of these quadrants bear in mind a little modification is required.
I am looking forward to finishing off all the other jobs outstanding and getting the Abingdon back on the road to try out the new gear change and the TT exhaust.
Last edited by alect on Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Steve White
- Regional Rep
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:43 pm
- MGF Register Region: Midlands
- Model of Car: TF160, ZT260
- Location: Rugby
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Interesting, when I purchased my bell crank from Mike Satur some years ago it came supplied with a threaded adapter to do exactly what you have done.
I assumed it was designed to allow the bell crank to be used on both the F and TF by either using the adapter or not depending on which length of gear cable you had.
On my car the adapter was a slightly too long, so I had to get the male thread lengthened so it would screw further into the rod end and give the correct adjustment.
I assumed it was designed to allow the bell crank to be used on both the F and TF by either using the adapter or not depending on which length of gear cable you had.
On my car the adapter was a slightly too long, so I had to get the male thread lengthened so it would screw further into the rod end and give the correct adjustment.
- Barbour
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:39 pm
- MGF Register Region: Europe
- Model of Car: 2002 TF 135 LEF PUU
- Location: NL
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Hi Alec, ofcourse I remember, thank you again, also for the advice given here on this problem, hope you will be able to get the Abingdon out soon, I have the Toyosports SS exhaust, very nice, the TT is a bit louder isn't it?alect wrote:Hi Barbour
Remember me? we met last autumn when you came over to collect a soft top I was giving away.
Cheers mate!
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Cheers!
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
Blue 2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
Anthracite 1998 MG-F 1.8 Mpi (sold)
Silver 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate (sold)
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
-
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 6:54 am
- MGF Register Region: North West
- Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Hi Barbour
The quote was from 2015 so the Abingdon, alas, is long gone, however the one you saw in my garage has been finished and was MOT'd last week for the first time in 8 years, although I am now messing with the Hydrogas hopingto get the problems with that sorted this week.
The TT exhaust was far too loud for me, so sticking with what Iv'e got on this one.
Good luck with your gear change.
Alec
The quote was from 2015 so the Abingdon, alas, is long gone, however the one you saw in my garage has been finished and was MOT'd last week for the first time in 8 years, although I am now messing with the Hydrogas hopingto get the problems with that sorted this week.
The TT exhaust was far too loud for me, so sticking with what Iv'e got on this one.
Good luck with your gear change.
Alec
-
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 6:54 am
- MGF Register Region: North West
- Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
One more thing,
I have a spare old gear change cable end and some of the 5mm bolts that I used last time, so if you would like to try this method and the garage have thrown away your old items I can send them to you if you wish, just let me know your address and I will post them out.
Be quick tho as I am off to Gran Canaria next Monday for 2 weeks.
Cheers
Alec
I have a spare old gear change cable end and some of the 5mm bolts that I used last time, so if you would like to try this method and the garage have thrown away your old items I can send them to you if you wish, just let me know your address and I will post them out.
Be quick tho as I am off to Gran Canaria next Monday for 2 weeks.
Cheers
Alec
- Barbour
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:39 pm
- MGF Register Region: Europe
- Model of Car: 2002 TF 135 LEF PUU
- Location: NL
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
I've send you a PM, thanks again Alec.alect wrote:One more thing,
I have a spare old gear change cable end and some of the 5mm bolts that I used last time, so if you would like to try this method and the garage have thrown away your old items I can send them to you if you wish, just let me know your address and I will post them out.
Be quick tho as I am off to Gran Canaria next Monday for 2 weeks.
Cheers
Alec
![Thumbs Up :thumbsu:](./images/smilies/afro.gif)
Cheers!
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
Blue 2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
Anthracite 1998 MG-F 1.8 Mpi (sold)
Silver 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate (sold)
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
-
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 6:54 am
- MGF Register Region: North West
- Model of Car: MGF 1.8 VVC
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Hi Wilfred
I will post them tomorrow.
I have included the longer of the two cable ends, a 5mm capscrew and a 5mm nut ( you wont need that when you put it all back together)
The method I suggest is, cut off the screw at the end of the thread where I have left it, remove the nut over the cut portion of thread, that will restore the threads where the hacksaw will have damaged them, discard the nut, screw the whole thing into the new ball end, measure 40m from the ball centre and cut the hexagon piece at that point, replace on the gear change cable adjust and way you go, 10 mins max!
Good luck with it and let me know how you get on.
I will post them tomorrow.
I have included the longer of the two cable ends, a 5mm capscrew and a 5mm nut ( you wont need that when you put it all back together)
The method I suggest is, cut off the screw at the end of the thread where I have left it, remove the nut over the cut portion of thread, that will restore the threads where the hacksaw will have damaged them, discard the nut, screw the whole thing into the new ball end, measure 40m from the ball centre and cut the hexagon piece at that point, replace on the gear change cable adjust and way you go, 10 mins max!
Good luck with it and let me know how you get on.
- Barbour
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:39 pm
- MGF Register Region: Europe
- Model of Car: 2002 TF 135 LEF PUU
- Location: NL
- Contact:
Re: Bell crank replaced, shifting problems.
Thanks for the instructions, I'll get on with it as soon as my buddy mechanic is back on foot, he just had it operated on, and at 72 things heal slower.
Thank you all together, and enjoy the warmth of Gran Canaria!
Thank you all together, and enjoy the warmth of Gran Canaria!
Cheers!
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial
Blue 2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
Anthracite 1998 MG-F 1.8 Mpi (sold)
Silver 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate (sold)
Safety fast, S3XY, Born from jets...
Xpower grey 2002 MG-TF 135 SP CP
Steel grey 2003 Ford Mondeo Estate Centennial