Tyres and the MoT !

[adrianclifford]

Tyres are probably the most debated single topic on here......it may get busier

I've just had a nice long chat with my local (independent) tyre fitter, he tells me he cannot sell a tyre that's more than five years old. It get's worse.................

From next year he tells me it's an MoT failure if you present a car with tyres more than ten years old for test. I know some of you want to keep your original tyres, usually the Goodyear Eagle GSD2's. I asked him about this and the ruling is being altered to bring cars in line with caravans and stop the use of old tyres that they see as potentially dangerous. He doesn't know the exact date but he has been told it's next year so be on the look out.

I would like to know how this affects a car sale, you cannot sell a caravan with tyres more than five years old as far as I'm aware, so I would bet the same would apply to a car. What about true classics with very much older tyres than ours ?

[Green Squirrel]

Adrian

Bit of mythology here Especially for caravans - there are no MOT type regulations for caravans, it is generally accepted that tyres on caravans should not be more than five years old and certainly not more than ten years BUT that is because caravans can (and do) sit without moving for months on end and this leads to flat patches and tyre rot. As far as I know if a caravan is stopped by the police or VOSA they check things like weight and loading and if they check tyres it is to ensure that they appear sound.

As to cars I will have to ask my MG service agent as my *F* spare is still the original and the car will be 19 years old in the new year although the fitted tyres are all within the ten year bracket.

[robbie1003]

there are no rules for selling caravans and with old tyres, its just good practice to change them when they get 5years old but to be fair each manufacturer of tyres does seem to age differently and how the van is stored plays a great part. Thing is the "rules" are made for the numpties that don't check their vehicles which is a good thing but to put a law in about the age of a tire just isn't right, my motorbike is stored In the dark and comes out sometimes, its tire on front is date stamped 2008, there's tread and no cracks, why would i want to change it? How many tires will go to landfill that are ok? Sounds daft to me.

[Geoff.F]

This has been an EU Regulation for many years. The UK as usual is just catching up.
Geoff F.

[adrianclifford]

That's correct Geoff, I spoke to my local MoT test station this afternoon and they agree it's us catching up with Europe but they are not aware of an implementation date as of yet.

I don't know if a spare tyre will have to comply as it's not actually fitted to the vehicle, but if it's there it's part of the car so maybe it's subject to test too (like a dash bulb maybe) ?

If you buy or sell a car it will probably have an MoT but that does not mean the tyres will comply as they may not have been fitted to the car at the time of testing.

My spare is a Goodyear Eagle, it's in excellent condition so I keep it there as just that, the spare. But I presume it's one of the original five tyres so it may have to go.

I wonder when they'll start on our altered (and illegal) number plates, there was talk of this on Euronews recently.

I thought caravans could not be sold with tyres over five years old (different tyre useage of course) happy to be corrected.

[John SS]

Thing is the "rules" are made for the numpties that don't check their vehicles which is a good thing but to put a law in about the age of a tire just isn't right, my motorbike is stored In the dark and comes out sometimes, its tire on front is date stamped 2008, there's tread and no cracks, why would i want to change it? How many tires will go to landfill that are ok? Sounds daft to me.

I had a bad accident in my previous toy (GTM Rossa K3) when I lost control emergency braking at relatively low speed - less than 50mph, on a smooth dry road.
In hindsight, I am convinced that it happened because the tyres were at least 12-15 years old, despite having loads of tread due to the low mileage the car had covered. I have since been told that car tyres harden and lose some of their 'adhesive' qualities over time. This would explain what happened to me.
Happily I survived, but my beautiful red GTM did not!

[2mgcars]

The spare wheel (tyre ) is not part of the MOT but if fitted to the car must comply.The examiner may tell you if anything is not correct but cannot fail it if not fitted ??

[Plezier]

Let's face it the powers that be don't want older cars on the road. They want us all to buy new and pay the exorbitant taxes on them to fund their expensive life styles on our expenses. This tyes idea is just one more nail in the coffin. Check out tyres prices for older classics and weep!

[RobboMC]

The objective of the MoT is to stop the absolute nurds from driving dangerous cars. If you are 'car centric' enough to be on this forum then you should appreciate the need for having safe tyres in good condition. You wouldn't drive your car with faulty brakes, so why discuss driving with faulty tyres.

And why even consider driving with a spare that may let you down when you need it most. It s a lot like Chelsea having an injured player on the bench - just doesn't happen.

We all know tyres go hard with age. In my opinion if your tyres are over about 8 years old you should get new ones, including he spare which should have been rotated anyway.

[Green Squirrel]

The objective of the MoT is to stop the absolute nurds from driving dangerous cars. If you are 'car centric' enough to be on this forum then you should appreciate the need for having safe tyres in good condition. You wouldn't drive your car with faulty brakes, so why discuss driving with faulty tyres.

And why even consider driving with a spare that may let you down when you need it most. It s a lot like Chelsea having an injured player on the bench - just doesn't happen.

We all know tyres go hard with age. In my opinion if your tyres are over about 8 years old you should get new ones, including he spare which should have been rotated anyway.

You can not ''rotate'' the spare on the original *F* as it is a different size and type to the on car tyres.

[Helsbyman]

Spare tyre ? not in 38 yrs of driving have I used my spare and in 15 yrs of MG driving have I had one

[Plezier]

Well I had to use the spare on "Blue 33" as the N/S/R blew out on the way home from collecting her. Have an MOT booked for 10:00 am tomorrow so we shall see about tyres and whatever they have changed since last year.

[talkingcars]

The spare wheel (tyre ) is not part of the MOT but if fitted to the car must comply.The examiner may tell you if anything is not correct but cannot fail it if not fitted ??

I used to beleive that but I now understand it isn't tested at all.

[talkingcars]

Well I had to use the spare on "Blue 33" as the N/S/R blew out on the way home from collecting her. Have an MOT booked for 10:00 am tomorrow so we shall see about tyres and whatever they have changed since last year.

I had an advisory last week on my ZS for tyre profiles as the front and rears are slightly different.
I bet they flag up the size difference on the F.

[Plezier]

I'll take the hand book with me and if they try that I stick it in his face. There is no way I will accept an advisory for factory fitment sizes.

[Plezier]

No mention of tyres aaprt from advice that the O/S/F is wearing on the inner edge caused by wear in the bottom ball joint which she failed on. I replaced the N/S/F one when we had the wheel bearing replaced so am not really surprised given the state of our roads. Emissions as well so need to retrieve her original cat and fit that.

Of course we have wintery showers today rain, sleet and even proper snow so not doing much today on her except ordering some gaskets.

[RobboMC]

The objective of the MoT is to stop the absolute nurds from driving dangerous cars. If you are 'car centric' enough to be on this forum then you should appreciate the need for having safe tyres in good condition. You wouldn't drive your car with faulty brakes, so why discuss driving with faulty tyres.

And why even consider driving with a spare that may let you down when you need it most. It s a lot like Chelsea having an injured player on the bench - just doesn't happen.

We all know tyres go hard with age. In my opinion if your tyres are over about 8 years old you should get new ones, including he spare which should have been rotated anyway.

You can not ''rotate'' the spare on the original *F* as it is a different size and type to the on car tyres.

I can't believe I actually wrote that!!!

Thinking too much about my gearbox at the time obviously, or my next glass of Bitter.

[RobboMC]

OK so it's been nearly a year and I am now driving our car.

But the spare still worries me.
I found this 'advice' on a well know tyre manufacturers web site:


Aged Tyres - Beware Your Spare

There is some evidence to suggest that aged tyres have an increased likelihood of failure due to exposure to the environment. Ideally tyres should be kept in a cool, dry environment out of direct sunlight and away from electric motors or other sources of ozone. If these conditions are not met a tyre may have an increased chance of failure. It is for this reason that Bridgestone recommend including full size spare tyres in the rotation schedule.

How do I tell the age of a tyre?

All tyres are produced with a serial Tyre Identification Number (or serial TIN) that shows the date of manufacture of a tyre (See Figure 1&2 below). The last three digits (for tyres made pre 2000) or four digits (for post 2000 tyres) of the serial TIN indicate the week and year that the tyre was made. Also a tyre made in the 1990's can be distinguished from a tyre made in the 1980's due to a triangular indentation after the last number which is not present on 1980's tyres.

How old is too old?

This is a subject of much debate within the tyre industry and no tyre expert can tell exactly how long a tyre will last. However, on the results of experience many tyre companies, including Bridgestone, warrant their tyres against manufacturing and material defects for five years from the date of manufacture. Based on their understanding a number of vehicle manufacturers are now advising against the use of tyres that are more than six years old due to the effects of ageing.

Tyre Ageing Mechanism

There are three main mechanisms of tyre ageing. The first involves rubber becoming more brittle. Sulphur is used to link rubber molecules together during vulcanisation with the application of heat and pressure, giving the rubber its useful elastic properties and strength. As the tyre absorbs energy in the form of light, heat or movement the tyre continues to vulcanise. This ongoing vulcanisation causes the rubber to become stiffer and more brittle.

The second mechanism of tyre ageing is oxidation involving oxygen and ozone from the air compromising the strength and elasticity of the rubber and the integrity of the rubber to steel bond. Basically heat and oxygen cause cross linking between polymer chains (causing the rubber to harden) and scission of polymer chains (leading to reduced elasticity).

Thirdly, breakdown of the rubber to steel-belt bond will occur due to water permeating through a tyre and bonding with the brass plate coating on steel belts. This causes the steel to rubber bond to weaken leading to reduced tyre strength and reduced heat resistance. If compressed air used for inflation is not completely dry, tyre strength will be affected over time. Even unused tyres will become more brittle, weaker and less elastic with exposure to water, air, heat and sunlight.

Warning signs

Regardless of their age tyres should be replaced if they show significant crazing or cracking in the tread grooves or sidewall (Figure 3&4) and or bulging of the tread face or sidewall. All tyres, especially unused spare tyres, should be inspected periodically to determine their suitability for service.



I once ripped the wall out of a tyre on the way back from Adelaide. To get back to Sydney I ended up driving 650 miles on the spare. It was a car a lot like the F, with different size low profile tyres front and rear, and a narrow 70 profile steel rimmed speed limited spare. But the spare was in good enough condition to drive on for a long distance.


So if you have a Mk1 F like us with a spare than is now at least 15 years old, ask yourself a question: " will my spare get me home?"

Next weekend I'm going to put my spare on the car and take it for a run and see what happens.

So has anyone replaced their spare on age alone, or is anyone planning to? I guess no F spare would ever get worn out. (Laugh)

[Geoff.F]

In the UK only the 4 roadwheels are examined for "deterioration" during the MOT whilst in some European Countries all 5 are inspected with a finite life of 10 years.
On the basis that the spare should be the best tyre on the car as if it lets you down when being used then you go nowhere, it needs to be maintained as the other 4. Our spare 14in (15 years old) sits in the garage looking like new but as a speed limitation of 50 Mph when driving across Europe over a weekend is not acceptable, a full 16in is the spare.
Yes, I bin 10 year old tyres on any car.
Geoff F.

[ashleyfrazer]

Something I came across recently in the UK is that if you have say 3 weeks left before the mot anniversary and you take the car for a new mot test (in the UK they add a year from the end of the previous certificate not the day of the test) if the car fails then it has no mot with immediate effect. You can drive it home and to garage to fix or another prebooked test but no where else. Previously the old certificate applied. I checked the government website about after the mot and it's on there. Ash