Wheel alignment advice needed
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Not many rules really, this board being aimed at technical issues, it shouldn't fall foul (hopefully) of some of the more personal issues that can affect forums.
Rule 1 - Is that you need to think very carefully before posting anything technical or asking anything technical relating to the security system of the car - See 'Security Issues' sticky for more info.
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Because advice is honestly and freely given in this technical section, much of it will be amateur experienced based, so any information is given in good faith and is not guaranteed as correct.
Not many rules really, this board being aimed at technical issues, it shouldn't fall foul (hopefully) of some of the more personal issues that can affect forums.
Rule 1 - Is that you need to think very carefully before posting anything technical or asking anything technical relating to the security system of the car - See 'Security Issues' sticky for more info.
Rule 2 - We (MGF Register) do not support copyright infringement and therefore references to CD ROM, PDF versions or paper copies of the workshop manual (for instance) should not be posted on the forum. We don't want to get into trouble and we'd rather sell you a genuine hard copy through our Regalia shop anyway!
Because advice is honestly and freely given in this technical section, much of it will be amateur experienced based, so any information is given in good faith and is not guaranteed as correct.
- RobboMC
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- Model of Car: 1999 Mpi
Wheel alignment advice needed
So I replaced a rear tie rod screw (old one was bent!) and headed straight in for 4 wheel alignment. They claim they set rear toe in same both sides but now car does not feel symmetrical. It turns left beautifully, but is hard to make it go right. And when forced hard right it feels like back will slide too easily.
When doing a slalom I can feel the difference, left us easy, right is difficult. It feels like a speedway car set up to only go left.
It's booked back in tomorrow for them to check, meanwhile has anyone got any bright ideas why?
The EPAS has the usual turn left at 3 mph but this feels very different to that. It happens at all speeds and seems not to be speed related. And no I dont have compliance washers fitted.
When doing a slalom I can feel the difference, left us easy, right is difficult. It feels like a speedway car set up to only go left.
It's booked back in tomorrow for them to check, meanwhile has anyone got any bright ideas why?
The EPAS has the usual turn left at 3 mph but this feels very different to that. It happens at all speeds and seems not to be speed related. And no I dont have compliance washers fitted.
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Did they do 4 wheel alignment or just rear, did they adjust the camber, were your tyre pressures correct before you had the work done?
- RobboMC
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
4 wheel alignment- yes
adjust the camber - I didn't think that was adjustable
tyre pressures correct - yes
Took it back this morning and they are blaming the EPAS but I swear the toe in feels different left and right.
At what speed does the EPAS turn completely off?
At 60 mph is feels the same, just wants to pull to the left, not turn left like at 2 mph when the EPAS turns by itself,
but car wants to track left all the time at any speed.
adjust the camber - I didn't think that was adjustable
tyre pressures correct - yes
Took it back this morning and they are blaming the EPAS but I swear the toe in feels different left and right.
At what speed does the EPAS turn completely off?
At 60 mph is feels the same, just wants to pull to the left, not turn left like at 2 mph when the EPAS turns by itself,
but car wants to track left all the time at any speed.
- Charless
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
If you pull the EPAS fuse you can compare without EPAS input.
- RobboMC
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
F&&&&&&&GFGYY&^YBHJK, Why didn't I think of that.
Fuse coming out and back to alignment shop once again.
Cheers mate.
Fuse coming out and back to alignment shop once again.
Cheers mate.
- RobboMC
- Posts: 1061
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:36 am
- MGF Register Region: Eastern Australia
- Model of Car: 1999 Mpi
Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Removed fuse and test drive car.
Lovely to drive but impossible to park.
Car still drifts to the left when I let go of steering wheel.
Car drives straight as an arrow when driver holds steering wheel.
The only thing I can think of is that the car was like this at the last tyre replacement and
the workshop set the front alignment to negate it so car went straight. The alignment shop man
swears the car is aligned straight. They have done it twice now.
I have : checked and adjusted tyre pressures front and back to be the same left and right
swapped the front tyres left and right ( yes I know they are directional tyres )
car still drifts to the left when driver let's go of steering wheel - even with EPAS deactivated by removing the fuse.
Any suggestions, however silly, will be welcome as I am at a dead end. Is there anything in the rack that can make it do this?
Next I'll check for a binding brake calliper I guess but I did a full R&R on the brake pads last year.
PS If I ever get this car onto a track day I'm thinking of tracking it with the EPAs fuse removed, does anyone do that?
Lovely to drive but impossible to park.
Car still drifts to the left when I let go of steering wheel.
Car drives straight as an arrow when driver holds steering wheel.
The only thing I can think of is that the car was like this at the last tyre replacement and
the workshop set the front alignment to negate it so car went straight. The alignment shop man
swears the car is aligned straight. They have done it twice now.
I have : checked and adjusted tyre pressures front and back to be the same left and right
swapped the front tyres left and right ( yes I know they are directional tyres )
car still drifts to the left when driver let's go of steering wheel - even with EPAS deactivated by removing the fuse.
Any suggestions, however silly, will be welcome as I am at a dead end. Is there anything in the rack that can make it do this?
Next I'll check for a binding brake calliper I guess but I did a full R&R on the brake pads last year.
PS If I ever get this car onto a track day I'm thinking of tracking it with the EPAs fuse removed, does anyone do that?
Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
I had the EPAS fault in that the steering wheel would move to the left on start up, following the guide I found from a link on here I fixed it but the car still pulled to the left took it to get the tracking sorted the front was fine and the rears were out had it all adjusted and the car now tracks true so I would check what figures are being used to set your rear end as it sounds like it is not set correctly
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Do you have a printout of the geometry? If not take it to a place with a decent laser alignment rig - something like Hunter Hawkeye.
- RobboMC
- Posts: 1061
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- Model of Car: 1999 Mpi
Re: More Wheel alignment advice needed - HELP!
Oh it's been a year, but I finally got it onto a machine with a printout.
attention * = degrees
FRONT AXLE
left | right | spec
Castor +4* 58' | +6*33' | 4.8* +/1 1*
KPI +11*45' | +12*47' | 11*40'
Camber -0*51' | -1*46' | 0.5*+/30'
Toe +0.6mm | -1.6mm | +1.1 +/0.6 mm
REAR AXLE
Camber -1*12' | -1*54' | -1* +/-30'
Toe +0.4 | -0.4 mm | -1.1 +/- 0.7 mm
So this is the way the last f&^$#@*^ gave it back to me.
Seems there's something wrong with the right front. Nothing looks bent or broken. All the suspension joint can say is that I need to get it fixed before they can do a wheel alignment, but nobody can tell me what it is that needs fixing. Any ideas?
Both the ball joint and tie rod end are original, so I thought I'd start with those.
Yes, the car IS pointing left. I have wound on about 0.5mm of toe in on the left rear and 0.5 mm of toe out on the front right, but the steering still feels stiff when turning to the right, and the road holding is definitely still much worse when turning right. I do have the article about setting the front and rear toe, should I be turning the front left to toe-in as well?
Interestingly there is also an noticeable 'clunck'' from the right front when I cross a gutter on left lock. Feels like it could be a loose joint somewhere. At rest on the jack the ball joint looks fine.
attention * = degrees
FRONT AXLE
left | right | spec
Castor +4* 58' | +6*33' | 4.8* +/1 1*
KPI +11*45' | +12*47' | 11*40'
Camber -0*51' | -1*46' | 0.5*+/30'
Toe +0.6mm | -1.6mm | +1.1 +/0.6 mm
REAR AXLE
Camber -1*12' | -1*54' | -1* +/-30'
Toe +0.4 | -0.4 mm | -1.1 +/- 0.7 mm
So this is the way the last f&^$#@*^ gave it back to me.
Seems there's something wrong with the right front. Nothing looks bent or broken. All the suspension joint can say is that I need to get it fixed before they can do a wheel alignment, but nobody can tell me what it is that needs fixing. Any ideas?
Both the ball joint and tie rod end are original, so I thought I'd start with those.
Yes, the car IS pointing left. I have wound on about 0.5mm of toe in on the left rear and 0.5 mm of toe out on the front right, but the steering still feels stiff when turning to the right, and the road holding is definitely still much worse when turning right. I do have the article about setting the front and rear toe, should I be turning the front left to toe-in as well?
Interestingly there is also an noticeable 'clunck'' from the right front when I cross a gutter on left lock. Feels like it could be a loose joint somewhere. At rest on the jack the ball joint looks fine.
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Top arm bearings?
- RobboMC
- Posts: 1061
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:36 am
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- Model of Car: 1999 Mpi
Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Are they difficult to replace?
I guess if I depressurise it and pull it to bits the worn/damaged parts will become self-evident.
I guess if I depressurise it and pull it to bits the worn/damaged parts will become self-evident.
- Tipper
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Did you get the EPAS left bias adjusted? There's loads of info on the bias being askew due to the EPAS torque sensor needing adjustment.
- RobboMC
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- Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:36 am
- MGF Register Region: Eastern Australia
- Model of Car: 1999 Mpi
Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
It's on my to do list and I have the procedure, thanks. Sadly the wheel alignment guys all throw their hands in the air when they feel the torque sensor bias, but my steering issue persists when I remove the EPAS fuse and also persists at 65 mph when all EPAS is long gone.
One guy even tried to tell me the 'hydraulic valve' was still leaking even after I removed the fuse. That's when I drove away from that 'service' depot.
One guy even tried to tell me the 'hydraulic valve' was still leaking even after I removed the fuse. That's when I drove away from that 'service' depot.
Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Your car will pull slightly to the left when you let go of the wheel due to road camber (or fall). This means that the road slopes slightly to the left so that water runs off into the gutter. That is if the road does not have a sharp right-hand bend. Just bear this in mind when letting go of the wheel, obviously with your hands around it ready to steer it away from any hazard!
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Do you have a brake dragging at all? My AP four-pots developed the corrosion build-up behind the pad 'skids' causing the pads to bind in position more on one side than the other - sorted now. Also though, with the modern roads causing tyre and wheel damage I have had tyres go out of true (stock Pirellis on classic mini) causing them to go slightly conical at the tread and a nice pull to the steering - binned them all as they were horrible anyway. Suspension spring seats needed replacing on my TF which improved straightness of steering a bit, but from your pic not sure if that is a factor for hydrolastic.
- RobboMC
- Posts: 1061
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:36 am
- MGF Register Region: Eastern Australia
- Model of Car: 1999 Mpi
Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Thanks for your input guys; however the machine cannot lie.
The camber, caster and KPI on the right front are all out of spec.
Trouble is it drives quite well so there's not much motivation to fix it just yet.
There's a definite small clunk from the right front when I drive up a layback on left lock so I'm sure there's something worn,
it's just a matter of finding it.
The camber, caster and KPI on the right front are all out of spec.
Trouble is it drives quite well so there's not much motivation to fix it just yet.
There's a definite small clunk from the right front when I drive up a layback on left lock so I'm sure there's something worn,
it's just a matter of finding it.
- talkingcars
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Find a quite flat road with no traffic and move to the crown to try the test.Fourbears wrote:Your car will pull slightly to the left when you let go of the wheel due to road camber (or fall).
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- Reckless Rat
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Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
Are you absolutely sure this is not as a result of accidental damage? A car that has been badly kerbed in the past can exhibit all sorts of alignment issues which will be shown up by the laser check. If you think it's OK then replacing top & bottom ball joints will be a good starting point, then the top arm bearings.
- RobboMC
- Posts: 1061
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:36 am
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- Model of Car: 1999 Mpi
Re: Wheel alignment advice needed
No. It could be anything. All I know is:Reckless Rat wrote:Are you absolutely sure this is not as a result of accidental damage? .
- the alignment shop couldn't see anything obvious
- when I last took the wheel off I couldn't see anything obvious.
I will take the wheel off and look again, while loading and unloading the suspension
and see if anything moves or rattles.